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Subject: TML Bundle #371: Msgs 4431-4447
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Date: Sun Jul 19 21:00:31 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #371: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4431  06-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Saturn V Launch Vehicle << Rupert Goldie wrot
4432  06-Jul-92 Cynthia Higginbot MT revision stuff pt2 << Scott "2G" Kellogg w
4433  07-Jul-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. RE: Star Frontiers << Since you seem to be a 
4434  08-Jul-92 bryan borich       << Does anyone know the conversion of Joules
4435  09-Jul-92 c_hamilton%W036_N Re: Forced mustering out << christofer bertan
4436  09-Jul-92 c_hamilton%W036_N Life Expectancy << One way to extend the aver
4437  09-Jul-92 c_hamilton%W036_N TCS << I know earlier that there was a PMeM T
4438  09-Jul-92 James T Perkins   Re: Joules and MegaWatts << bryan borich <705
4439  09-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Beach Boys Tunes! << Let's get silly! CraftID
4440  09-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4 Part 2) << 
4441  10-Jul-92 jco@bbn.COM       Re: (4434) << >> Does anyone know the convers
4442  10-Jul-92 metlay@phyast.pit Re: Joules and Megawatts << > Date: 08 Jul 92
4443  10-Jul-92 Cynthia Higginbot TCS game... << Chuck Hamilton: >I know earlie
4444  11-Jul-92 jdriver@netlink.c RE: Star Frontiers << > Since you seem to be 
4445  12-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU FTD Courier/Reconbot << Howdy all, Another ro
4446  12-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The Lagerfeld Fasionbot << Howdy all, Came up
4447  13-Jul-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. Re: Star Frontiers << > I started to do this,

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4431
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1992 11:09 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Saturn V Launch Vehicle

Rupert Goldie wrote:

}Scott 2G Kelloggg
	       ^^^
(maybe I should sign things '3G' from now on?)

Well, I got a bit silly a few days ago...
I wonderd just what it would be like to build...

CraftID:  "Saturn V" Class Launch Vehicle, TL7, MCr 45.421809
Hull:     (430/1075) Disp=477.5, Config=3AF, Armor=8B
          Unload=198, Load=2901
Power:    (1/1)*3 FuelCell=267Kw, Dur=15/45
Comm:     Radio=Sys*18 (3 on each stage)
Loco1:    Stage 1, (59/117) HP-Rocket=3479t
          (1.2G @ Ignition/4.6G @ Burnout) Dur=127 sec
Loco2A:   Stage 2, (2/3) Solid-Rocket=80t (.1G) Dur=8 sec
Loco2:    Stage 2, (59/117) HP-Rocket=524t
          (.8G ignition/3.1G) Dur=365 sec 
Loco3A:   Stage 3, (2/3) Solid-Rocket=80t (.6G) Dur=8 sec
Loco3:    Stage 3, (2/4) HP-Rocket=108t
          (.72G @ Ignition/2.69G @ Burnout) Dur=300 sec
Loco4:    Service Mod, (1/1) HP-Rocket=93t
          (3.22G W/Cargo/10.1G @ Burnout) Dur=10 min
Loco4A:   Service Mod, (1/1) Solid-Rocket=3t*5 (.1G) Dur=6 sec each
Loco4B:   Servce Mod, (1/1) Resisto-Jet=.01 (.006G)
          (quad jets) (uses water from fuel cell)
Loco4C:   Command Mod, (1/1) Solid-EscapeTower=67t (20G) Dur=6Sec
Sensors:  RADAR=Dist, LADAR=Altimeter, PassIR, LightAmp, Radiation
          ActObjScn=Form, ActObjPin=Form
Off/Def:  -
Control:  Comp=0bis*6, Electronic*215
Accom:    Crew=3, Seats=ExtendedCramp*3, Cramp*2, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=4285KL(L-Oxygen/Kerosine/L-Hydrogen,
          Cargo=13.2KL,(2 tons) Subcraft=Lunar Lander, Lunar Rover,
          Objsize=Avg, EMLevel=Strong(with engines firing)
          Otherwise=Faint
Note:  The solid rocket engines are engaged prior to the main
engines in order to settle the liquid fuel in the tanks.  Also of
note, I took the actual performance and duration data for the
engines.  According to Hard Times, she'd use considerably less fuel
and would never make orbit.

Performance:  Take off size 8 World to size 2 moon and back.
104.4 tons to orbit, 43 tons to escape velocity (from Earth).

CraftID:  Service/Command Module, TL7, MCr 4.417065
Hull:     (3/7) TotalDisp=7.5, Confg=3AF, Armor=40C(Command Module)
          Armor=8B(Service Module) Unload=14.7, Load=16.5
Power1:   (1/1)*3 FuelCell=267Kw, Dur=15/45 (Service Module)
Power2:   (1/1) Batteries=800Kwhrs, Dur=3hrs (Service Module)
Power3:   (1/2) Batteries=742Kwhrs, Dur=3hrs (Command Module)
Comm:     Radio=Sys*6
Loco1:    (1/1) HP-Rocket=93t (5.6G) Dur=10 min
Loco1A:   (1/1) Solid-Rocket=3t*5 (.1G) Dur=6 sec each
Loco1B:   (1/1) Resisto-Jet=.01 (.006G)
          (quad jets) (uses water from fuel cell)
Loco1C:   (1/1) Solid-EscapeTower=67t (20G) Dur=6Sec
Sensors:  RADAR=Dist, LADAR=Altimeter, PassIR, LightAmp, Radiation
          ActObjScn=Form, ActObjPin=Form
Off/Def:  -
Control:  Comp=0bis*3, Electronic=182
Accom:    Crew=3, Seats=ExtendedCramped*3, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=9.16KL(L-Oxygen/L-Hydrogen,
          Cargo=4KL(1 ton in service module)
          Subcraft=Command Module, Objsize=Small,
          EMLevel=Strong(When engines firing) Otherwise=Mod

CraftID:  Lunar Lander, TL7, MCr 5.241786
Hull:     (3/7) TotalDisp=3, Config=9USL, Armor=1B
          Unload=14.7, Load=16.5
Power:    (11/22) Batteries=4.76Mwhrs, Dur=80hrs (descent stage)
Power2:   (1/1) Batteries=369Kwhrs, Dur=3hrs (ascent stage)
Comm:     Radio=Sys*3
Loco1:    Descent Stage, (1/1) HP-Rocket=4.8t (.3G) Dur=20 min
Loco2:    Ascent Stage, (1/1) HP-Rocket=1.6t (.5G) Dur=20 min
Loco2A:   Ascent Stage, (1/1) Resisto-Jet=.01t (.06G) (quad jets)
Sensors:  RADAR=Dist, LADAR=Altimeter, PassIR, LightAmp, Radiation
          ActObjScn=Form, ActObjPin=Form
Off/Def:  -
Control:  Comp=0bis*3, Electronic*33
Accom:    Crew=2, Seats=Cramped*2, BasicEnv, BasicLS
Other:    Fuel=1.25KL Cargo=12.3KL,(1 ton) Subcraft=Lunar Rover,
          Objsize=Small, EMLevel=Strong(When engines firing)
          Otherwise=Mod

CraftID:  Lunar Rover, TL7, Cr 82478
Hull:     (1/2) Disp=.093, Config=0USL, Armor=0B Open top
          Unload=218kg, Load=672kg
Power:    (1/1) Batteries=64Kwhrs, Dur=4.7hrs
Comm:     Radio=Planetary
Loco:     (1/1) Wire-Wheels, Road=35, Offroad=14
Sensors:  VideoCamera
Off/Def:  -
Control:  Electronic*4
Accom:    Seats=None*2
Other:    Cargo=92kg (181kg allowed for each passenger)
          Objsize=Small, EMLevel=Mod

Yeah... I know, but I had fun designing it.

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4432
Date: 06 Jul 92 19:25:24 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: MT revision stuff pt2

Scott "2G" Kellogg writes:


>MEGATRAVELLER DESIGN CONSTRUCTION REVIEW PART 2
>DESIGN EVALUATION

I'd like to see part 1.  I must have missed it when I lost net access.

>(the SR-71's thrust to weight ratio is 0.3824.  Max speed is
>unknown but around 3100kph)

Do you mean 0.3824 or 3.824??  The number cited is rather at odds 
with the table above it.


>VTOL Aircraft must suffer some thrust penalties due to the nozzles
>necessitated by their VTOL design.  As all VTOL aircraft must have
>a thrust to weight ratio greater than one, one would expect from
>the table above that all VTOL aircraft would be extemely fast.  As
>this is not the case, forward thrust for the aircraft must be
>divided by 4.  Thus, the Harrier with it's Thrust/Wt of 1.227 would

   Since the limitations of present-day nozzle design are an engineering
limitation, and not a Law-of-Physics limitation, I would suggest 
calibrating the VTOL thrust divisor by tech level.  Otherwise, you
are assuming that there will never be improvements in vectored thrust
design that will improve thrust efficiency vis-a-vis non-vectored thrust
engines.  You don't want to repeat the story of Traveller computers and
have players looking at your tables 15 years from now and saying "That's
bogus!  TL 12 Traveller aircraft are wimpier than the stuff the Navy's
using now!"  (Which is what we are all saying about the current COACC
tables.... I'm delighted to see your revised tables.)

				--- Cynthia


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4433
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Tue, 7 Jul 92 08:43 EDT
Subject: RE: Star Frontiers

Since you seem to be a resident expert at SF, how about if you give us a
rundown on the system; mechnaics and background.  I've heard of it but never
even seen it in the gaming stores here.

- ----------
In the dark no one can hear the color of your eyes.
Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100 @ psuvm.psu.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4434
Date: 08 Jul 92 23:39:53 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: 

    Does anyone know the conversion of Joules to Megawatts? (formula wise)
And if so what is it <grin>.



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4435
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 08:06:27 EDT
From: c_hamilton%W036_NW@mwmgate1.MITRE.ORG
Subject: Re: Forced mustering out

christofer bertani <chrisber@gorn.echo.COM> writes:

> Brandon Cope writes:

> > I also have a problem with the fact that even if a character
> > recieves a promotion every term, they will almost never serve more
> > than two terms at the highest rank. This makes no sense that the
> > military is going to force out their generals and admirals as soon
> > as they get to that rank. The maximum voluntary number of terms (6,
> > I think) should be extended for those of high rank (say 4+) by one
> > term, with an additional term per level of rank past 4 (so an
> > Admiral could serve 9 terms (36 years, minimum age of 54)).

> This is a really good idea.  I've also considered forced mustering
> out to be a problem, and this looks like a good solution to me.

I think the game designer's philosophy behind the 'forced mustering out'
was to generate player characters; not the run-of-the-mill, everyday
Imperial citizens.  For some characters, it helps me to visualize their
'mustering out' as a radical career shift.  Perhaps they have become
bored with their current jobs and want a bit more excitement.

As an example, a run-of-the-mill Imperial Navy officer musters out and
gets a desk job with an IN defense contractor.  This person might not
fit well into a Traveller campaign.  The player character musters out
of his career with 1) few ties, and 2) a reasonable amount of his 
average lifespan remaining.  This type of person could fit easily
into most types of Traveller campaigns.


Chuck Hamilton
c_hamilton@mwmgate1.mitre.org


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4436
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 08:16:39 EDT
From: c_hamilton%W036_NW@mwmgate1.MITRE.ORG
Subject: Life Expectancy

One way to extend the average life expectancy past today's average
into what might be the average in the 54th century is already in the
rules: anagathics.  My personal view is that the rules were designed
this way to maintain game balance.  Since more skills are obtained the
longer one stays in a career, the aging rules exist to coerce player
characters out before they become MajorSkills-4 and EveryOtherSkill-2.
I have no problem with the rules as they now stand.


Chuck Hamilton
c_hamilton@mwmgate1.mitre.org


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4437
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 15:01:49 EDT
From: c_hamilton%W036_NW@mwmgate1.MITRE.ORG
Subject: TCS

I know earlier that there was a PMeM Trillion Credit Squadron game in
the works.  Is this still going on?  If so, are there any open slots? 
Thanks.


Chuck Hamilton
c_hamilton@mwmgate1.mitre.org


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4438
Subject: Re: Joules and MegaWatts
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 92 12:48:24 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>


bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM> writes:
> Does anyone know the conversion of Joules to Megawatts?  (formula wise)
> And if so what is it <grin>.

Bryan, a gentle reminder. Joules and Megawatts are different dimensions,
so you are comparing apples and oranges. A Joule is a measure of Energy,
whereas a Watt is a measure of Power. Power is defined as the rate of
Energy use.

For an example, an automobile's gasoline tank holds gasoline, which has
an intrinsic fixed value of pontential energy per unit volume. I don't
know the real numbers, but assume that 1 kg of gasoline when combusted
with oxygen, will yeild 1MJ of energy. Now, this energy can be expended
at minute rates or huge rates, but the same quantity of potential energy
is released.

A Watt is defined as the use of 1 Joule per second. So, 1 kg of gasoline
fully combusted (1MJ) over 20 seconds would yeild an energy rate (power
dissipation) of 1MJ/20s = 50kJ/s = 50kW. If instead you squandered the
1kg of gasoline in .2 seconds, you would yeild a power of 1MJ/.2s =
5MJ/s = 5MW.

Pop quiz:
	1) does an automobile travelling up a hill at 20m/s have greater
	   ENERGY that one with the same amount of gas traveling down a
	   hill at the same altitude at 60m/s?
	2) does an automobile travelling up a hill at 20m/s generating
	   greater POWER that one with the same amount of gas traveling
	   down a hill at the same altitude at 60m/s?

Answers:
	1) no, both vehicles have the same amount of gas in the tank, so
	   chemical energy is the same; they have the same gravitational
	   potential energy (same altitude) and kinetic energy (same
	   speed).
	2) yes, the vehicle travelling up the hill is working harder.
	   It's using gasoline at a greater rate to increase it's
	   gravitational potential energy (altitude) while maintaining a
	   constant kinetic energy (speed).

You can also roughly think of energy as the capacity to perform work,
and power as the rate that work is getting done.

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Beaverton, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4439
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 17:26 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Beach Boys Tunes!

Let's get silly!

CraftID:  Lil' Deuce Coupe, TL6, Cr 1544
Hull:     (5/12) Disp=.5, Config=6USL, Armor=1B,
          Unloaded=0.994, Loaded=2.039
Power:    (1/1) ImpIntComb=162kw, Dur=5hrs
Loco:     (1/1) Wheels=4, P/W=80, Road=149, Offroad=45
          No cargo:  Road=225 (140mph)
Comm:     Radio=Reciever
Sensors:  Headlight*4
Off/Def:  She's ported and relieved and stroked and bored
          She'll do a hundred an' forty with the top end floored
Control:  EnhMech*1
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Cramp*2, BasicEnv
Other:    Fuel=45Liter, Cargo=1Kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Sm


CraftID:  T-Bird, TL6, Cr 2060
Hull:     (6/15) Disp=.65, Config=6USL, Armor=1B,
          Unloaded=1.65, Loaded=2.79
Power:    (1/1) IntComb=235kw, Dur=5hrs
Loco:     (1/1) Wheels=4, P/W=84, Road=153, Offroad=46
          No cargo:  Road=200 (125mph)
Comm:     Radio=Reciever
Sensors:  Headlight*4
Off/Def:  And she'll have Fun Fun, Fun,
          'Til her daddy takes the T-Bird away!
Control:  EnhMech*1
Accom:    Crew=1(Driver=1) Seats=Cramp*2, None*2, BasicEnv
Other:    Fuel=141Liter, Cargo=1Kl, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Sm
Note:     There is'nt enough detail in the craft design system to
          distinguish bettween a '63 and a '66 T-Bird.  I doubt
          you can even distinguish bettween a '58 and a '66.
          Anybody know the horsepower in a 390 or a 420?

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4440
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1992 17:27 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4 Part 2)

DOWN THE WELLES
     or
Deep in a hole...

Scott Kellogg
          - VII -
     Jietlshaiepr strolled onto the bridge and gazed longingly at
Niedrsha.  "So, how are we doing?" she whispered softly.
     Miakr stared into the sensors.  "Three of the SDBs have
altered course to attack the VIXEN, leaving two still after us...
The VIXEN is coming into range... in two minutes."
     Miakr raised his eyes from the sensors for a moment and
stretched his neck, "I directed her to make one pass to draw them
off and then continue on an intercept course to the Spindleman.
They're jerks, but they are fighting the right people."
     Jietlshaiepr sighed and became businesslike with a tinge of
regret.  "Time to get in range of the Spindleman?"
     "Ten minutes... just after the SDBs get there."
     Niedrsha shook his head.  "The Chekbas has jumped out.  The
Shoolist is just about to try.  Fuck, they're nuts!"
     The Shoolist was just a speck on the scopes.  The chronometer
ticked off the seconds till they gambled their lives.  Even if they
came out in an star system, they had no way to refuel.  They had a
one way ticket on a mystery tour to nowhere.
     Niedrsha found himself counting quietly to himself, "Four...
Three...  Two...  One...  Ze...", he was cut off as the dot
suddenly flared brilliantly and vanished.
     He checked the instruments, "She's vaporized..."
     Jietlshaiepr took a deep breath.  She leaned over Miakr to
look into the readouts, "Ok, let's see how our little VIXEN makes
out."
          - VIII -
     The VIXEN charged into missile range and released her deadly
cargo.  Four flights of missiles fanned out like streamers
towards their targets.
     Another blossom of missiles surged into the vacuum as the
space around the VIXEN surged with laser light from the SDBs.
A flash, a surge, lanthanum boiled into space as the VIXEN was
illuminated momentarily by a 750 megawatt laser battery.
          - IX -
     "She's hit!" Miakr half shouted.  "It's all confused... All
right, the jump drives been hit, probably totaled.  It was in
pretty bad shape anyway...  Maneuver drive's damaged, down to
five point three G's acceleration...  Number two turret seems to
be slow...  but it's still in action!"
     Jietlshaiepr breathed, "Right, Miakr, get the robots to work
on the..."
     "Already done.", he shot.  "I've had them programmed for
damage control since we entered combat."
     "Good boy."
     Niedrsha grinned, "Here comes missile intercept..."
     The screen flashed briefly with fission fire.  Smaller
flares went up as high explosive crashed into the SDBs.
     Miakr read off the sensors.  "One SDB took a nuke... she's
sluggish... hit in the maneuver drives...  The other two are
hit...  Can't get a good reading at this range, but they took
some damage."
     "Hold on to your hats, there goes the second flight of
missiles." smiled Niedrsha.
     More flashes, barely visible at five million kilometers
range lit the screen.
     "Another nuclear strike hit..." grinned Miakr, "Can't get a
reading this time...  No engine damage, that's for sure.  They're
still pursuing at the same speed.  No change in power generated.
Probable weapon damage."
     Jietlshaiepr drew a deep breath, "Maintain firing."
     The VIXEN continued to spiral missiles towards her
opponents.  A brief flare showed her silhouette against the stars
as she twisted to escape.
     Miakr stiffened, "Number three turret damaged... Still in
action.
     "Another strike got through.  One SDB losing fuel...  Blast
these sensors, I can't tell if we're doing anything or not!"
     "Check out the Spindleman," cautioned Niedrsha.  "She's
about in range of the other two ships."
     "Viepchakl!" Miakr's eye's grew wide.  "They're plastering
the Spindleman...  Multiple damage...  Fuel leak...  I read
vaporized lanthanum:  their jump drive's out...  Maneuver drive's
out...  I wonder if there's any one left alive..."
     The SDBs turned their attention to the onrushing VIXEN just
as she laid her nuclear eggs.  A geyser of fuel fogged the vacuum
momentarily obscuring her outline but she flew on with her wings
paralyzed.
     "Shit!" screamed Miakr. "The VIXEN's maneuver drives are
dead...  Can't get anything from the engine room!  She's out of
control!"
     The VIXEN's missiles continued to fly.  Slugging all her
remaining strength into her weapons, she swung at her enemies.
     "She's still hitting them."  read Miakr, I can't really see
what she's doing to them but she's still firing."
     The SDBs couldn't miss a drifting target.  The VIXEN
continued to pour missiles out of her turrets and bay as they
pounded her.  The missile bay with it's nuclear missiles was
their first target.  It was quickly reduced to glowing metal.
The final end came when her last fuel tank ruptured under the
punishment of the mass attack of the five SDBs.  Low on fuel
after the jump, her power plant strangled as it's blood ran into
the vacuum.
     Jietlshaiepr looked up from the display.  "We're on our own
now."
          - X -
     "Missiles away!" Gresha barked as six nuclear tipped
missiles flared from the Flamboyant's racks.
     "Impact at this range:  thirty one minutes." calculated
Niedrsha, "We'll be down in thirty two.  I'm headin' for the
ocean:  it's on the night side.  We'll put down and submerge.
That ought'a give their gunners a few headaches."
     "How long till they touch down?"
     Niedrsha's holographic head's up display flashed.  "One hour,
forty minutes, eighteen seconds.  We've got ten minutes before they
reach missile range...  laser range in ten seconds.  Laser
batteries stand by."
     "Laser one ready." called Kaezorr.
     "Laser two ready." grumbled Rackan.
     Jietlshaiepr studied the range, "Niedrsha, evasive action. 
Lasers commence firing!"
     The Flamboyant wound itself into a knot as Niedrsha jerked
the controls into a tight roll.
     X-ray lasers began blasting into the night seeking targets,
but the SDBs flew on untouched by the onslaught of power.
     Moment's later the SDBs own lasers flicked on seeking the
fleeing Escort.  The visible spectrum lasers flashed on into the
clouds of Welles below them.
     "Brrrraaacht... A laser strike at this range'll only be by a
stroke of luck." growled Kaezorr.
      "Keep at it," Jietlshaiepr breathed, "and hope they're not
any luckier..."
     Laser light blared back and forth as the gunners played a
vicious game with seven hundred fifty megawatts of power.  "I
can't tell if I'm hittin' 'em or not!" barked Rackan.
     More missiles dropped from the Flamboyant's tubes and burned
their way to the enemy.
     "I hit one!" called Kaezorr.
     Miakr read off the sensors.  X-ray radiation emanated from
the first SDB.  "The leading SDB was hit.  Can't verify any
damage, but it hit."
     Jietlshaiepr bit her lip, "Good job, maintain fire."
     Time after time the lasers streaked out into space.  "We
can't hit 'em." barked Rackan.
     "They can't hit us either." called Miakr.  "Concentrate fire
on the wing SDB:  the leader has ceased fire.  That hit must have
damaged their lasers."
     "Roger."
     Minutes dragged as the SDBs closed.  Wildly slashing beams of
photons flared; the superior targeting of the Flamboyant balanced
by the superior agility of the SDBs.  At a range of five hundred
thousand kilometers where light takes three and a third seconds to
go and return, only luck could result in a solid hit.
     Rackan began cursing the lasers in unintelligible Gevueg
quietly but soon it got loud quickly.  "Grraph ersharrrfphessh
shreeelipf GARRCHT!  Verrsh!  I hit the veersheg!"
     "Hit to their laser batteries." called Miakr.  "They've
ceased laser fire.  Their missiles are still after us though."
     "That's stupid." laughed Niedrsha, "We'll be underwater
before they can possibly get anywhere near us."
     "They're still closing."
     "Maintain fire." ordered Jietlshaiepr.
     The lasers kept firing as the silent SDBs pursued but not a
single more hit was made.
          - XI -
     "Cease fire, we're heading into the atmosphere." called
Niedrsha, "We're gonna be a fireball in a few seconds.  We'll
show up on their infrared sensors like an imposter at an
invisible man convention.
     "Engine room, divert power to overdrive engines.  We need
emergency agility."
     "You got it Niedrsha." announced Shtam, "Emergency power
available on your demand."
     "Here we go!"  The Flamboyant surged like a thing alive,
invigorated by the diverted power and the guidance of Niedrsha's
hands.  She rolled and soared with a dancer's grace through a
choreography as much pleasing to the eye as confusing to a
gunner.
     "Altitude:  one hundred forty nine kilometers." Niedrsha
announced, "Touch down seven minutes.  Passengers will please
fasten their seat belts..."
     The fringes of the atmosphere began to glow on the windows
of the ship.
     "We've lost radar contact.  We're in radio blackout." said
Miakr tensely.
     "Viepchakl!" breathed Jietlshaiepr, "We're a shooting star.
How can they miss?"
     Niedrsha caught her eye and grinned, "Just watch me,
sweetheart."
     The Flamboyant glowed cherry red as she twisted into Welles
atmosphere.
          - XII -
     A few minutes later the radio crackled.  "...ones.  Come in
Flamboyant.  'mergency...  'mergency... Come in Flamboyant.  'is
is Surgeon Lt. Jones o' the League o' Suns."
     Jietlshaiepr took the radio, "Flamboyant here, go ahead Lt."
     "Requestin' tight beam communications.  Change course,
repeat, change yer course... yer current headin' will take ya in
an 'ostile area.  Mercenary company `ats thick wi' the pirates.
Avoid island ot five degrees south, one forty eight east.  Heavy
defenses."
     "Gotcha." mumbled Niedrsha.
     "We've lost contact with the Spindleman." continued Jones.
"What ya got on her?"
     Miakr read off, "Uhhh... Spindleman took heavy laser damage.
maneuver drives out, jump drives too, I think.  Her power plant
was still going, but she was losing fuel."
     "Thank ya, Flamboyant.  Request rendezvous wi' ya ot eleven
degrees north, zero degrees east.  Thot's seventy kilometers
north o' the starport.  We're going te need each other."
     Jietlshaiepr sniffed, "Have you got anything to deal with a
ship of the line?"
     "Ah, Negative, Flamboyant."
     "Ok, Jones, but don't wait up for us.  We're busy.  We'll
give you a signal code burst...  Uhhh...  Stat Code Blue."
     "Affirmative, good luck.  Lt. Jones out."
     Miakr read the sensors, "Missile intercept coming up...
now!"
     Nuclear flowers blossomed in the night, lighting the
darkened side of the planet as the missiles crashed into the wing
SDB, flooding the spectrum with static.
     A moment later the second flight of missiles flew among the
SDBs.  The lead SDB flared as the missiles blazed into it.
     "They're hit, but still flying." called Miakr.  "Too much
interference from the blast.  I can't tell what it did to them."
     "Hold on!" growled Niedrsha, "Here comes the water...  We're
going in."
     The Flamboyant lurched as she hit the water.  Inertial
compensators strained to keep the stress down, but still it was a
rough ride.  The hull rattled and rang as water boiled off the
surfaces of the ship, blazing hot after the wild ride through the
atmosphere, sending billowing steam into the night.  Finally, she
stopped pitching as she lost weigh and drifted in the water.
     "Dive!  Dive!" called Jietlshaiepr, "Engine room, open fuel
stop cocks.  Take us down."
          - XIII -
     Missiles smashed into the surface of the water where the
Flamboyant had landed sending plumes of water hundreds of meters
in the air.
     Protected by the depths, the Flamboyant sank unharmed to the
bottom with her eyes wide open.  Jietlshaiepr studied the
sensors; densitometers and neutrino detector taking the place of
radar and ladar, not as accurate, but still workable.  "We're
safe down here for the moment...  We have fifty eight minutes
before the SDBs are in down.  The other five SDBs have followed
us down.  They will be here in one hundred and two minutes.  Star
Rider is still heading for the Kivas.  They'll rendezvous in...
two hours thirty seven minutes.  The other SDBs have turned to
rendezvous with the Star Rider.  Looks like they finished with
the...  Hold on... I'm picking up movement.  I can't identify...
It must be the Spindleman.  They're alive.  She's in a descending
orbit.  Dragoon must be crazy.  With all the damage, she'll burn
up."
     "Hold on." Niedrsha examined the sensors.  "I think they're
coming in for a EVA re-entry."
     "Combat drop." thought Jietlshaiepr, "Viepchakl, what a
ride.  They're gonna need a recovery team."
     "That ain't us.  Leave 'em to Jones." snorted Niedrsha.
"They'll be in position to try in in three hours forty four
minutes."
     "Seven SDBs:  two damaged, five fresh."
     "Well, in this atmosphere, they can't go any faster than we
can, and on the deck, we can go faster than they in a nape of the
ground mode."
     "That's not very comforting, but it's something." sighed
Jietlshaiepr.  "There's an ocean trench forty kilometers east.
We'll take them there."
          - XIV -
     The SBDs skimmed the surface, landed, submerged and came
hunting.
     Miakr read it off, "We've got one forty kilometers off to
the north east and one fifty to the south south east."
     "All right, let's go." Jietlshaiepr breathed.  The
Flamboyant was ready:  high explosive missiles loaded and the
power plant throttled down to minimum to avoid detection.
     The ship looked out into the murky depths.  Her densitometer
scanning the waters, she sought out the enemy power plants with
her neutrino detector.
     "Maximum range of our missiles is about fifteen kilometers
underwater.  We're gonna have to be awfully close." commented
Gresha.
     "They can't see as well as we can in water, their sensors
are not as good as ours:  those SDBs are only tech level twelve."
commented Shtam from the engine room.
     "Agreed, but at this range it won't help us that much."
interjected Kfoks.
     "One's breached the surface and is coming in overhead."
called Miakr.  "Forty three kilometers and closing bearing one six
three degrees.  Speed:  one thousand two hundred kilometers per
hour."
     "Ready missiles." called Jietlshaiepr.
     "Forty one kilometers... time to range mark:  one minute
ten seconds...  Mark!  The other one's following suit, bearing
five zero degrees, time to range mark:  one minute twenty five
seconds...  Mark!"
     "Niedrsha take us up to forty meters and put us over on our
starboard side.  Gunners stay sharp, dorsal turret take the east,
ventral take the south target."
     The SDBs bore in skimming the water meters over the surface.
Sending up huge blasts of water as their sonic booms blasted the
surface of the water setting up wakes that shone in the
moonlight.
     Seconds dragged by as the sensors counted the rapidly
decreasing range.
     Jietlshaiepr breathed heavily, "Begin evasive action.
Range?"
     Miakr read the sensors nervously, "Twenty two and thirty
kilometers respectively."
     "Open fire when the second is at twenty kilometers."
     "Thirty seconds." counted Miakr.  "Here they come...  Speed
one thousand...  Range twenty five...  Fifteen seconds...  Ten...
Range twenty two...  They're slowing down."
     "Damn the range, get 'em while they're airborne.  Open
fire."
     Six missiles left the tubes and speared through the water.
     "Intercept:  four seconds..." swallowed Miakr.
     "Niedrsha, take us down!  One hundred meters!"
     The Flamboyant dove for the bottom as the SDBs came
barrelling in.  Missiles smashed through the water and blasted
the after underbelly of the leader.  Caught, she flipped and
tumbled bow first into the water at nine hundred kilometers per
hour.  The bridge wind screen shattered and flooded the bridge.
The inertial compensators collapsed as the ship hit sending the
full force of the hypersonic crash throughout the ship.  End over
end the ship tumbled, spinning and spreading wreckage over a two
kilometer strech of open ocean.
     The second SDB caught a missile on her port bow throwing the
starboard side stern into the water.  Caught by the dragging
water she slewed around to starboard, spinning like a disk and
smashed her engines into the concrete hardness of the water at
the speed of sound.  She bounced and planed to a stop.
     She was badly twisted and riddled with gaps where armor
plating buckled and bent.  Quickly she filled with water and
sank.
     "She's going down..." called Miakr.  "Densitometer says
she's half full of water...  What's left of the hull won't hold
in the depths.  She's at two hundred meters and going down
fast...  Two fifty...  Hearing straining bulkheads...  three
hundred meters..."
     A huge explosion set the hull ringing.  The inertial
compensators took out most of the rocking.
     "She's blown up!  The magazines went!"
     Jietlshaiepr took a deep breath and flopped back in her
acceleration couch.  "Two down...  Five to go.  It isn't going to
be any easier:  they won't make that mistake twice."
          - XV -
     Two SDBs stayed in orbit.  Three came in lower.
     The Flamboyant lurked forty meters under, safe from
bombardment.  Every few minutes a lone missile came down and
exploded as it hit the surface.
     "They keep inching lower, but that's all." yawned Miakr
shaking with fatigue and nerves.  "Viepchakl, we've been at this
for nearly five hours.  Seven hours and fifty one minutes since
we received the Droyne distress signal."
     Jietlshaiepr smiled weakly, "Just be glad they aren't firing
nuclear rounds."
     Shtam, sighed over the intercom, "They are probably out of
nuclear missiles.  They only fired one:  that being at the Droyne
cruiser.  They have not used one more.  We on the other hand Have
used them.  That must be why they are staying off until they can
get the big guns to bear on us:  the Star Rider's spinal mount
meson accelerator."
     Niedrsha brushed the hair from his forehead, "That's not for
a while yet, they're still fifty minutes away from the Kivas.  I
hope they don't find your work Shtam."
     "Ok!" barked Jietlshaiepr jumping to her feet.  "Gresha, you
awake?"
     "Rrrrrrrrooff!" yawned Gresha, "Yeah, I'm still on my feet."
     "How many missiles have we got?"
     "Oh, we've still got quite a few.  Plus the ones still in
the Vipers, oh...  eighteen fission rounds, thirty one high
explosive."
     "Ok, what loads have you got in there now?"
     "Fission."
     "Right.  In forty minutes I want you to reload with high
explosive."
     "Why?"
     "They don't know how many missiles we have.  If we convince
them we're out of nuclear rounds, we can coax them down for a
good shot at them when they're in the atmosphere."
     Niedrsha smiled getting the picture, "And if we convince
them when they're taking the Kivas on board the Star Rider..."
     Jietlshaiepr nodded, "They'll be too busy to find Shtam's
handiwork."

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4441
Subject: Re: (4434) 
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 09:59:56 -0400
From: jco@bbn.COM


>>     Does anyone know the conversion of Joules to Megawatts? (formula wise)
>> And if so what is it <grin>.

Joules = newton * Meters

Watts = Joules / Second = newton * meters / second

They aren't the same units.  You would have to have Joules /
Unit_Time.  

jco

- -
John Orthoefer			"Generaly speaking, things have gone about as 
jco@bbn.com 			far as they can possibly go when things have
Bolt, Beranek And Newman Inc.   got about as bad as they reasonably get. "
                                -- Player "Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead"


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4442
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: Re: Joules and Megawatts
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 11:02:34 EDT


> Date: 08 Jul 92 23:39:53 EDT
> From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
> Subject: (4434) 
> 
>     Does anyone know the conversion of Joules to Megawatts? (formula wise)
> And if so what is it <grin>.

You can't convert from joules to megawatts, any more than you can convert
from seconds to mph. They're two different quantities, not just different
units. The joule is a unit of energy, and the megawatt is a unit of power
(energy per unit time). One megawatt is one million joules per second.

- -- 
mike metlay    (phud, no less)
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4443
Date: 10 Jul 92 19:11:00 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: TCS game...

Chuck Hamilton:

>I know earlier that there was a PBeM Trillion Credit Squadron game in
>the works.  Is this still going on?  If so, are there any open slots? 
>Thanks.

Yes and no.  The game continues, but there are no open slots at the 
moment (unless you really want to play a TL5 world in a TCS campaign) 

However, slots open up at the oddest times, so stay in touch...
Or do you WANT to play Topas?


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4444
Subject: RE: Star Frontiers
From: jdriver@netlink.cts.COM (John Driver)
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 92 17:00:09 PDT

> Since you seem to be a resident expert at SF, how about if you give us a
> rundown on the system; mechnaics and background.  I've heard of it but 
never
> even seen it in the gaming stores here.
 
        I started to do this, but halfway through I broke down and 
bought MegaTraveller, and well, there is no comparison.  After I 
read through the MegaTraveller books I've bought thoroughly I'll 
highlight the differences.

- --                    
INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdriver
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4445
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1992 18:28 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: FTD Courier/Reconbot

Howdy all,

Another robot.

CraftID:  FTD Courier/Reconbot, TL15, Cr 275,977
Hull:     (2/5) Disp=250Liter, Config=1AF, Armor=18G,
          Unload=95Kg, Loaded=196Kg
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=47kw Dur=2dys
Loco:     (1/1) Grav=400kg, NOE=40, Cruise=900, Top=1200
          50KgCgoTop=2120, 50KgCgoCruise=1590
          NoCgoTop=2850, NoCgoCruise=2138
Comm:     Radio=FarOrbit, Maser=FarOrbit, AudioSpeaker
Sensors:  P-EMS=VDist, NAS=VLong, ActiveSonar=Dist, PassAudio=Dist
Devices:  LtArm
Off/Def:  SmokeEjector
Control:  Brain (Linear=11, StdStorage=20)
Programs: Low Data, Lim Basic Command, GravVehicle-2, Recon-3
Other:    Fuel=9Liter, Cargo=100Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
          Basic environment and life support in cargo bay.
Strength=18
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=3
Education=2

The FTD Courier/Reconbot is meant as support for planetside Scout
teams in covert situations.  The robot can act either autonomously
or under guidance from an orbital platform to carry small items of
cargo to and from the surface of a planet.  Thus supporting covert
teams without endangering other personell.

The robot's sensor packages and programming are sufficient to allow
it to avoid all contact and maneuver in a variety of environments.

They are often used by teams when surveying primitive planets where
teams may not carry high tech equipment and it must be smuggled
down.  In such cases, the masercom may not be needed which will
drastically reduce the price.  Indeed the Far Orbit range
communicators account for 202,000 Credits of the total price.
(Radio=90,000, Maser=112,000)

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4446
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1992 18:30 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The Lagerfeld Fasionbot

Howdy all,

Came up with this idea after a few letters to Catie Helm on
high tech shopping expeditions.

With high tech, who's gonna buy 'off the rack'?

CraftID:  Lagarfeld Fashionbot, TL12, Cr 94205
Hull:     (1/2) Disp=125Liter, Config=6USL, Armor=2F,
          Unload= 126Kg, Loaded=126.3Kg
Power:    (1/1) Fuel Cell=20kw Dur=2dys
          (1/1) Power Interface
Loco:     (1/1) Wheels P/W=20 Road=140, Offroad=7
Comm:     Voder
Sensors:  Visual+Telescopic*2, Audio, Densiometer=1m
Devices:  LtTentacle*4, HoloDisplay, Taylor Tool Pkg*2,
          Financial Pkg
Off:      Ever see Karl Lagarfeld's stuff?
          *Some* might find it offensive...  Heh Heh Heh |->
Control:  Brain (Linear=20, Parallel=5, StdStorage=70)
Programs: High Data, Basic Command,
          Valet-4, VacSuit-4, Mechanical-1, Emotion Sim
Other:    Fuel=7Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Strength=17
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=3
Education=7

Given the raw materials, The Lagarfeld fashionbot can produce an
individually taylored garment in less than an hour.

The sophont to be fitted merely goes through an interactive program
with the machine describing the item of clothing to be produced. 
The robot's sensors can take the measurements and visuals of the
client and project a holo image of the client wearing the clothes
before they are made.  In such a way the sophont can see exactly
what they will look like in the clothes and adjust them to their
taste before manufacture.

With four dexterous tentacles and two tayloring packages, the bot
Lagarfeld unit can work with any material:  leather, cotton,
synthetics, fur etc. etc.  The small lasers of the taylor packages
are used for cutting and welding synthetics for taylored vac suits.
To produce a taylored vac suit requires access to tech level 14 or
better materials though.

Should the client be uncertain of a what they desire, the robot has
an extensive memory of past fashions and styles.  It's emotion
simulation programing allows it to make suggestions tactfully.  The
machines can improve their skills as they learn, and as a machine
becomes more experienced it can (and often does) become more
forceful with it's suggestions.  [Warning:  such robots become
bored with making run of the mill stuff and tend to push more
fancuful creations.]

Thus, a high tech clothes shop tends not to be so much racks and
racks of clothes, as large selections of cloth and materials.
Sales clerks aide in the selection of the material and direct the
clients to the robots.  Thereafter, they make agreeable noises as
to the quality of the finished product.

Scott 2G Kellogg
Altaira:  Robby?  I need a new dress.
Robby:    Again?
                    - Forbidden Planet

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4447
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 92 08:24 EDT
Subject: Re: Star Frontiers

>        I started to do this, but halfway through I broke down and
>bought MegaTraveller, and well, there is no comparison.  After I
>read through the MegaTraveller books I've bought thoroughly I'll
>highlight the differences.
>
I assume from the tone of your response that you like MT better?

Paul

- ----------
In the dark no one can hear the color of your eyes.
Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100 @ psuvm.psu.edu

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
*****************

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun Jul 19 21:00:40 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #372: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4448  13-Jul-92 kirsch@rhea.infor Falcon Class Battlefighter << After pondering
4449  13-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Typo in silly vehicles. << Mornin' all, Thank
4450  14-Jul-92 "Andrew H. Bond"  Small Craft Weaponry & Power plants << I have
4451  09-Jul-92 AR11598%SWTEXAS.B Traveller 2300AD << Hello all, I just bought 
4452  14-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Answers to a couple questions << Just a few q
4453  14-Jul-92 Robert S. Dean    Re: Answers to a couple questions << 2G Kello
4454  14-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Re: Answers to a couple questions << Hmmm. Ro
4455  14-Jul-92 jdriver@netlink.c Character advancement rules question << How d
4456  15-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Orbital Surveillance, Grav Belts, and Antimat
4457  16-Jul-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. Orbital Survellience, Grav Belts, and Antimat
4458  16-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4, Part 3) <<

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4448
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1992 14:53:21 EDT
From: kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de
Subject: Falcon Class Battlefighter

After pondering about different Fighter designs in different publications
I had wondered, why I had to build a 40 tons Fighter (Lance Class from
Black War and Robert Deans TL15 design) to put a Computer-9 into it.
I searched to some MEGATRAVELLER stuff i.e. COACC and the Referee's manual.
Then I got my copy of Assignment Vigilante and the Imperial Lines No.1.
In it I found some comments about Starship building.
And that was what I learn:
One of the things, where you can save volume, weight and money is
Live Support. Simply calculate Live support only for the inhabited zones
of the craft (suggested in COACC and Imperial Lines). The only disadvantage
of this decision is the fact, that you can't maintain the vehicle in space
without an EVA. But who will maintain a Fighter in space. Hangars are such
lovely places to maintain Fighters. As a reslut, here is the Falcon-Class
Battlefighter:

CraftID:	Falcon Class Fighter,Type BF, TL 15, MCr 121.676
Hull:		18/45, Disp=20, Conf=1AF, Armor 58G, Unloaded=548.271,
		loaded=550.336
Power:		3/6, Fusion=756MW, Duration: 27/81 (at Maneuver=2)
Locomotion:	4/8, Maneuver=6, Agility=0;
Communication:	Radio=System; Maser=System;
Sensors:	EMM, EMSActive(FarOrbit),EMSPassiv(Interstellar),
		HighPenDensi(1km), NeutrinoSensor(10kw);
		ActObjScan=Rout, ActObjPin=Rout, PasObjScan=Rout,
		PasObjPin=Rout, PasEngScan=Simp, PasEngPin=Rout
Off:		Hardpoints=1, Fusion Gun= x05
		              Batteries     1
		              Bearing       1
Def:		DefDM+11
Controls:	Comp=9x3, 38xHololinked, 1xHeadsUpHoloDisp
Accomodations:	Crew=2, SmallStateroomsx2, Env=BasicEnv,BasicLS,
		ExtLS,gravPlates,inertialComp
Others:		Fuel=29.5 kl, ObjSize=Average,EMLevel=no Emission

Comments:
- - Duartion: The duration mentioned above is for cuise mode, Maneuver=2
	    and Life Support. The following table shows effects of other
	    modes:

  Powerplant Out:	kl/h	kl/day
	756 MW		0.378	9.072	Maneuver=6 + weapons + LS
	252 MW		0.126	3.024	Maneuver=6 + LS (no weapons)
	 90 MW		0.045	1.080   Maneuver=2 + LS
- - The DefDM calculates on the formula presented in the MEGATRAVELLER
  Referee's guide
- - Please note: The Fighter can be made about 8 MCr cheaper, if the
  armor is reduced to 40G. I have decided to use 58G, because so additional
  criticals up to weapon UPC 4 do not take place.

If anyone is interested in flying bricks like a TL 25 Disp=20 Armor=118H
Fighter, please email me.

Juergen

- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Juergen Kirsch
Institut fuer Informatik, Universitaet Bonn
Germany
kirsch@rhea.informatik.uni-bonn.de

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4449
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1992 10:31 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Typo in silly vehicles.

Mornin' all,

Thanks to alert reader John Orthoefer for finding a typo in the cars I've been
putting up.  Apparantly, some of them were posted as being config=6 (dome/disk)
instead of Config=4 (box)  My goof!  Sorry if I caused you all undue confusion.
(Yeah, right...)

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4450
From: "Andrew H. Bond" <abond@rvgs.vak12ed.edu>
Subject: Small Craft Weaponry & Power plants
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 1:39:47 EDT

	I have been noticing a continuing descrepancy in the
design of small craft that seems to be unnoticed by everyone
else.  Perhaps there has been a rule change that I am not aware
of.  Take for example the standard TL15 fighter as llisted in
the Imperial Encyclopedia: a 10 ton craft with a 186MW power
plant and carrying a beam laser. A beam laser requires 500MW of
power to operate, is this an error? I have seen this same type
of error numerous times in the VD archives. Also the Falcon
fighter from last night, while it does have a power plant large
enough to support a single fusion weapon lists its ucp as x05.
at TL15 this equates to 16 weapons, that must be some turret!
	I think that Traveller is an excellent game, however
the lack of consistancy bothers me greatly, another example:
"at tech level 17, laser weapons are powered from internal
matter/antimatter pods." Imp. Encycl. pp72. gee, why can't we
have power supplies like this for TL17 vehicles; the smallest
TL17 antimatter power supply listed in the design rules is
8kliters and weighs 6 tons.
	I am new to TML, has this subject been broached before,
if so why are vehicles still being designed with grossly
inadequate power supplies?

	just my Cr0.02 worth   Andrew H. Bond mind-at-large.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4451
Date: Thu, 9 Jul 92 14:24 CDT
From: AR11598%SWTEXAS.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu
Subject: Traveller 2300AD

Hello all,
        I just bought the Traveller 2300AD game for a song and am new to the
list and Traveller 2300AD game.  I was hoping someone out there could inform me
where to get the most info on this game at the various ftp sites and how would
I know if its for the Traveller 2300AD game.  I also am new to this computer
e-mail thiong and hope that there is someone out there who also plays Traveller
2300AD to kinda converse with me on the rules 'cause I am no mathemitician and
frankly the combat and world generation stuff reads rough for a non-scientific
type trying to enjoy a scientific/space genre.  Two more questions (please dont
think me stupid but)
1: What exactly does au meen?
2: What are some of you seasoned players opinions on Traveller 2300AD?
                                            Awaiting responses,
                                                 Adam Rios
                                             AR11598@SWTEXAS.BITNET


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4452
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1992 11:55 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Answers to a couple questions

Just a few questions I thought I'd answer for you all:

}        What books do you base your designs on?  Just the Ref's Handbook?  I 
}remember from an earlier posting that you used Book 8: Robots for bots, any 
}other supplements like this you use?

Lesse:
Ref's Handbook

101 Vehicles
(has a few construction rules for adding weapons not in the Ref guide)

Hard Times
Primitive spacecraft

COACC
Aircraft (errata in challenge 36)

Book 8:  Robots
Brain construction and computing human equivalences
There's additional stuff for bots in 101 robots
Mainly I will construct a robot body using the Ref's Guide and then install
a brain from Book 8.  There are some devices and equipment in Book 8 that
are not in the ref's guide, when the same item is listed in both default to
the ref's guide.

Challenge 61
Vehicles TL-0 to TL 4

The Wet Navy stuff also appears in challenge, but I forget what issues
(53?, 54?, 60?)

I have gone back to Striker to find some items that were not in any
book after that to find the size and weight of things like damper boxes,
cranes, plows, nuclear weapons...

I have also gone back to JTAS 21 for missile design rules.
(But I incorporated book 8 brains for the missiles)

(Rob?  Have I left anything out?)
- -------------

Next question:
}Who the *Bleep* is Karl Lagarfeld?

Women's clothes designer.  Picture a collection of tight skirts, leather
lingerie, and snake skin bikinis.  *THAT'S* Karl Lagarfeld.  |->

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4453
Date:     Tue, 14 Jul 92 13:23:59 EDT
From: Robert S. Dean  <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Re:  Answers to a couple questions

2G Kellogg writes:
> Ref's Handbook
> 101 Vehicles
> Hard Times
> COACC
> Book 8:  Robots
> Challenge 61
> The Wet Navy stuff also appears in challenge, but I forget what issues
> (53?, 54?, 60?)
> I have gone back to Striker to find some items that were not in any
> book after that ...
> I have also gone back to JTAS 21 for missile design rules.
> (Rob?  Have I left anything out?)

That sounds pretty complete to me.  Anyone looking at my compiled design
archives will find that I used a combination of George Herbert's naval
design system, and some cumbersome rummaging about in Mark's Handbook of
Mechanical Engineering to do various watercraft designs prior to the 
publication of Wet Navy in Challenge.  As the issue now stands, I need to
write up the hybrid system for watercraft using the better parts of both 
systems.

Rob Dean
robdean@access.digex.com


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4454
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1992 12:38 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Answers to a couple questions

Hmmm.

Rob is right.  I have used George Herbert's naval designs a few times
prior to Wet Navy coming out.  And some guesswork on a lot of naval
designs that I put up before George's stuff.

I think I used George's design system on the SHADO Skydiver, and the
Herbert Dean Meson Submarine.

The designs previous to that pulled engine statistics directly from
books on warships along with their stated performance.  The only thing
there that wasn't a matter of common sence was the size and weight of
the propellers.  I forget what I used, (I think it was Rob's suggestion
to use the transmission of a tracked design with volume, weight, cost
multiplied by 2)

Since Wet NAvy has come out, I use it, but I think Rob is right:  We
need to incorporate George
's ideas into a Good design system for ships.

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4455
Subject: Character advancement rules question
From: jdriver@netlink.cts.COM (John Driver)
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 92 15:38:03 PDT


How does a character gain an AT in a skill that he already has through
experience only?
 
        On page 4 of the Player's Handbook there are rules for
characters to improve their skills with.  Me and my group of players are
having trouble understanding exactly how this procedure goes for a
character to improve his or her stats by experience.  This is how we
understand the procedure to go so far:
 
        First off, a character in the group has to have the skill that
another player wants to gain proficiency in.  When this character uses
the skill, the player obverves the procedure, through (Difficult,
Determination).  If he is successful in this task he gains the skill
temporarily at level-0.  Then when the opportunity arises he tries a
task that uses this skill, and if he succeeds, he gains an AT in this
skill.  This sounds like an unusual procedure, so can someone give us
confirmation on it?
 
        Later on the page, under Gaining The Skill, it mentions the
procedure for a character to improve the skill once he has the AT in it.
It also says that if the character already has that skill, success
increases the skill one level.  But, how does that character gain the AT
in this skill he already has?  Does he observe someone with the same
skill but at a higher level than himself?  Or is the observation/tryout
stuff just skipped?  The rules don't say, and this has befuddled us as
to what the correct procedure is.  Someone please enlighten us.


- --                    
INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdriver
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4456
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1992 13:45 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Orbital Surveillance, Grav Belts, and Antimatter

Greetings all,

A few odds and ends I've been chewing on.

Did you all get to see Patriot Games?  Good flick, not as good as the book,
but it was pretty good.  It did give me an idea for Traveller.  There is
one scene in there where they are watching an assault on a desert base at
night using overhead orbital surveillance cameras.

The images they get are almost good enough to identify individuals.  It
seems to me that if the troops involved carried Identification Friend or
Foe Transponders (as we assume is carried in combat armor and battle dress)
You could easily target individuals on the surface of a planet from orbit.
The images were THAT clear.  I'm not even sure you'd need transponders.
You could see what they were wearing, and if the uniforms of the troops
were sufficiently different, it would be child's play.

	"Yes sir!  We've got the Zhodani General targeted!"

The old line in the 60's was "We can read the numbers off the liscense
plates with the spy satillites."  Well, we know that isn't true, but
given a passive array that we say has 'Interstellar' range, I can see
there being a LOT better resolution than what we have today.

That means that just about every ship that carries a laser would be
absolutely DEADLY to ANYONE on the ground.  You wanna assassinate Lucan?
Just go into orbit around Capital and wait till he steps outside!

- ----------------
Another odd point:
The maximum listed speed for a man wearing a grav belt is 300km/hr.
Why?  Drag?  Skydivers travel MUCH faster than that.

Case:  I forget when it was done, but sometime back in the 50's-60's they
were experimenting with high altitude ejection.  I remember hearing a guy
talk about setting the world record for the highest parachute jump on some
documentary or other.  He said that on the way down he actually went
supersonic.  When he got into the thicker atmosphere, he slowed way, way
down before he pulled the chute.

Now there is an unstreamlined object (If I ever heard of one)
travelling supersonic and it was accelerating at 1G.

YEEE HAAA!  What-a-ride!

- ---------------
Andrew Bond asked about the Imp. Encyclopedia.
The designs in there are a mess and are full of typos errors and all
sorts of things.  The 10 ton fighter there is clearly impossible.

You mentioned similar errors in the vehicle archives?  OUR vehicle
archives?  Not in MY designs!  Where!  Where!  I may make the occasional
typoxsh#4, but I don't think *I'm* guilty of common sense mistakes like
the ones in the Imp Encyclopedia.

As for where those weird anti-matter pods come from?  Who knows?
Who cares?  The design system was very well thought out past TL 15.
TL 16 is pushing it and 17 is right out.  Plus with the corrections
made to the fission plants, they are more economical cost and fuel
space wise than the listed antimatter stuff.

Scott 2G Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4457
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Thu, 16 Jul 92 14:13 EDT
Subject: Orbital Survellience, Grav Belts, and Antimatter

Disclaimer:  all following comments made by me are based on the fact that I am
    neither an aerodynamicist nor a physcist, I merely have a lumber-room
    memory for random, miscellaneous facts.  All comments are subject to review
    and correction by the appropriate professionals.

>
>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1992 13:45 CST
>From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
>Subject: (4456) Orbital Surveillance, Grav Belts, and Antimatter
>
>- ----------------
>Another odd point:
>The maximum listed speed for a man wearing a grav belt is 300km/hr.
>Why?  Drag?  Skydivers travel MUCH faster than that.

Do they?  Terminal velocity (at reasonable altitudes) is approximately 120 MPH.
Terminal velocity is the speed at which the drag of falling through the
air exactly balances the force of gravity pulling you down.  You can change
this to some degree by streamlining your body (pull your arms and legs into
line with the torso), but I don't think you gain a LOT of speed.

>
>Case:  I forget when it was done, but sometime back in the 50's-60's they
>were experimenting with high altitude ejection.  I remember hearing a guy
>talk about setting the world record for the highest parachute jump on some
>documentary or other.  He said that on the way down he actually went
>supersonic.  When he got into the thicker atmosphere, he slowed way, way
>down before he pulled the chute.
>
The speed of sound varies with the density of the medium, so it would be less
at higher altitudes.  Since the Terminal Velocity also varies inversely to the
density of the air, these two speeds should move toward each other at higher
altitudes (i.e. TV goes up, SoS goes down).  How closely they approach, I have
no idea.   Any real aerodynamicists out there?

Possibly, GDW considers grav belts to put out a constant force, therefore,
they would produce a constant speed at max output, like terminal Velocity.  If
all grav belts come from the factory preset, this would account for the
constant max V.

But, consider this...
Dad gets teenage son a GB for his sixteenth birthday.  Said teenage son
proceeds to soup it up.  Said teenage son, then goes out and races with other
hotrodders.  Sounds like california in the 60's, eh?

>
>Scott 2G Kellogg
>
- ----------
In the dark no one can hear the color of your eyes.
Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100 @ psuvm.psu.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4458
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1992 14:38 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4, Part 3)

		DOWN THE WELLES
		     or
		Deep in a hole...
          - XVI -
     "Miakr, Niedrsha, wake up."  Jietlshaiepr shook the bridge
crew awake.  "Rendezvous:  Star Rider has been standing off the
Kivas for six minutes.  That's just enough for them to find the
booby trap in the magazines.
     "Gresha, are you ready?" she asked.
     "High explosive rounds loaded in the dorsal turret, nuclear
in the ventral.  When we're ready we flip and fire."
     "Miakr, what altitude are they at?"
     "The three are at one hundred seventy kilometers, the other
two are at twenty nine thousand:  synchronous orbit."
     "Gresha, fire one missile at each of the low targets.  Just
one missile at a time.  Get across to them we're running out."
     "Firing!"
     The first missile rose to fifty kilometers before the enemy
lasers blew it to shreds.
     The second was blown apart at one hundred twenty kilometers.
     The third hit.
     "Out gassing, looks like we hit a fuel tank." sighed Miakr.
     "Gresha, fire one round at each of the ships's we didn't
hit.  Leave the other alone."
     "Firing!"
     The SDBs sidestepped the missiles and blasted them from the
sky with their lasers.
     "All right, Gresha one more shot at the leading one and
that's it."
     "Firing!"
     The missile lifted clear of the atmosphere and hit the
leader.
     Miakr studied the read out, "Can't read any damage...  We
connected though...  Hold on...  Here they come!  One hundred
sixty kilometers and descending.  They'll start re-entry in
thirty seconds.
     "Niedrsha, surface!  Laser turrets, fire when breach."
     The Flamboyant rose and broke the surface in the dark night.
     Six 250 megawatt X-ray lasers struck out into the blackness.
Three fireballs streaking through the upper atmosphere could not
evade.
     "We hit two of them, I can't read any thing definite."
growled Miakr.
     "Maintain fire!  Hit 'em while their burning!"
     The lasers hummed, sending streams of high energy photons into
into the night.
     "We've hit them a few times." strained Miakr, "I can't see a
damn thing...  They're coming out of re-entry.  Altitude one
hundred ten kilometers."
     "Dive!  Dive!  Take us down, Niedrsha!  One hundred meters!"
     Flamboyant went under shaking from the blasts as the surface
was pummeled with visible light lasers and high explosive
missiles.
     "Are you sure it's a good idea to DRAW their attention?"
asked Miakr incredulously.
     "Better their's than Star Rider's."
     "Point taken."
     The surface of the water glowed bright white as the lasers
of the three SDBs tried vainly to reach the Flamboyant.  The
power diffused too rapidly through the ocean water.
     "We loose a flight of nuclear missiles when they're at five
kilometers.  Power down all unnecessary systems.  Prepare for
fission blast."
     "Five minutes forty till firing..." called off Miakr.
"Altitude:  ninety five kilometers..."
     Shtam cut power to general systems and rigged the current
grounds to the engine capacitors.  The electromagnetic pulse
picked up by the ship's electronics would be channeled into the
power plant restart system.  This should avoid most of the damage
and shorts triggered by the atomic fission blast.  The computer,
power and other vital systems would be triggered to shut down
after the missiles fired.
     In advance the systems were pre-checked for emergency
restart.
     Miakr read, "Twenty seconds to fire...  Altitude ten
kilometers..."
     "Invert the ship." ordered Jietlshaiepr.  "Everyone strap
in.  We'll lose artificial gravity when we cut power."
     Miakr counted the range, "Ten seconds...  Seven
kilometers...  Five...  Four.....  Two...  One...  Fire!"
     Three fission warheads left the missile racks of the
darkening Flamboyant.
     The missiles rose at eight G's for seven seconds.  Streaking
into the night and into the heart of the SDB formation.
          - XVII -
     The dawn was just breaking over the ocean.  Clouds streaked
across the deep bluish black of the horizon.  Suddenly, three
suns came up briefly burning into the sky, mountains of electric
fire.  The thunder went far and deep across the surface of
Welles.
          - XVIII -
     Three SDBs spun wildly out of control caught off guard by a
nuclear blast.  Two of them fell uncontrollably and smashed into
the sea disintegrating on the surface.
     The third and farthest from the blast spiraled away flaming
as her blasted fuel tanks gave up their hydrogen blood.  She came
spinning down, loosing power as her power plant strangled itself.
     The pilot, surrounded by the corpses of the rest of the
bridge crew, pulled up.  The power was fading fast.  The nose
stayed up but the drives were failing.  Descending fast, the ship
came down and skimmed the surface headed for shore.  The inertial
compensators failed he strapped himself in and waited for the
shock of impact.  Ground effect kept her aloft for a few hundred
meters then she hit:  stern first.
     She plowed through the water to a stop.  Quickly, the
cracked fuel tanks filled with water:  hydrogen for the fusion
plant.  But the tortured power plant had suffered enough.  It grew
cold in its innards and refused to restart.
     The fuel tanks leaked, flooding the engine room and aft
sections.  The deck tilted as the stern went down.
     The pilot got up and struggled to the air lock:  unmovable
with the power shut down.  Quickly, he grabbed a survival kit and
fired the explosive bolts of the windscreen.
     He climbed painfully out onto the nose of the SDB, inflated
the raft, and flung it and himself into the water.
          - XIX -
     Flamboyant's power came back quickly.
     "Good work, Shtam.  All stations report in!" called
Jietlshaiepr.
     Calls came in from all over the ship.
     "Computer operational!  Sensors... noisy, but operational!"
     "Helm answering!"
     "Engine room, all drives check!"
     "Dorsal missile turret check!"
     "Ventral missile turret check!"
     "Starboard laser turret check!"
     "Port laser turret check!"
     "We were very lucky..." sighed Jietlshaiepr.  "Miakr, where is
the Star Rider?"
     Miakr's eyes grew wide, "She's coming right at us!"
     A blast of heavy meson fire exploded through the water.
     "VIEPCHAKLVA!" Jietlshaiepr screamed.  "Shtam!  Detonate the
plant!  NOW!"
     The Kivas power plant suddenly activated and ran up to full
power.  The electromagnetic plasma bottle drew the full power of
the fusion plant containing the plasma even tighter inducing more
fusion reactions in the hydrogen plasma.  The increased power was
fed into the plasma bottle drawing the plasma even tighter
increasing power in a geometric progression...
1..2..4..8..16..32..64..128..256..512..1024..2048..4096..8192..
16384..32768..65536..131072..262144..524288..1048576..2097152..
     The dawn sky flared with a blinding fusion flash for a
second which broke the Star Rider's back.  Molten pieces of the
pirate ship blossomed into space, flaring and burning as they hit
the atmosphere or freezing as they drifted into interplanetary
space.
          - XX -
     An hour later, the main bridge crew was sleeping off the
battle.  Taek Kfoks turned away from the sensors and back to the
helm.  "I guess they were right.  The two SDBs haven't moved from
orbit.  They're just sitting there.  There's nowhere they can go:
they aren't jump capable, and they don't want to take us on.
They'll just have to wait it out."
     "And we're trapped down here!" snarled Tuerz.
     Kfoks nodded calmly, "True, if we took off, we'd never make
jump before they'd be shaking us in their jaws.  Their detectors
can pick up a one gigawatt fusion plant.  We'd have to run power
up to a minimum of that to get this ship to move.  The fighters
and the Gig could move, but where would you go on this planet?"
     "Grrrraaph.  I'd like to saw their fingers off one by one.
Taek, I can't stand this waiting!  I've got to kill someone.
Maybe Stuzzel..."
     Long used to his excitable friend's nervous murderousness,
Kfoks responded quietly and calmly, "No, don't kill him.  We need
him.  We're in too much of a jam for you to have fun with him."
     "But one day, you'll let me kill him won't you?"
     "Sure, if it comes to that, but I hope you'll get a chance
to get one of the enemy.  There's a mercenary company on this
planet, probably with connections to the pirates.  If we can
catch..."
     "Interrogate!" grinned Tuerz.
     "Yes." nodded Kfoks.
     "Torture..." sighed Tuerz.
     "Yes." nodded Kfoks.
     Tuerz went into a silent reverie contemplating the
interrogation of a captured mercenary.
     Kfoks sighed inwardly.  Tuerz was getting close to panic
with pressure and inaction.  It was fortunate that he enjoyed his
fantasies enough to take away the panic, but Tuerz blood lust
was up now.  At least it had been channeled towards the enemy. 
Left to himself, Tuerz could be a danger to almost everyone.
          - XXI -
     Jietlshaiepr sat yawning and sipping her morning tea in sick
bay listening to the grateful Droyne captain explain their story.
They got through the shredded galanglic slowly with the help of the
other Droyne:
     They were a trade convoy out of Tesser, a large population
planet in the Consulate, headed back from a tour of the systems
around the sector that had Droyne inhabitants.  They jumped to
Welles for fuel.  The planet's inhabitants were having big
trouble.  A strange plague which only killed certain human
genotypes and an apparently high tech mercenary company involved
in slaving on the low tech planet.
     The League of Suns had sent an expedition to find out about
all the trouble and they had apparently cured the disease.
     The Droyne got their fuel and were heading out when BANG!
     They had been rather well armed because of the mounting
piracy in the sector.  Thus they carried a six Droyne team of
drop troops.
     Yes, actually, they had heard of Dr. Malenkoviepr.  Born on
Tesser, fully integrated into Droyne society and understanding.
Never met him, but understand he's quite intelligent for a human
with their strange ways...
          - XXII -
     Shtam took the Gig's controls and dropped away from the
submerged Flamboyant.
      "Go five kilometers south and surface." ordered
Jietlshaiepr.  "We'll transmit the signal:  'Stat Code Blue'.
That'll bring Lt. Jones to the rendezvous point."
     Kfoks began checking over his huge armored tilly.  "We'd
better be ready.  If Dragoon is typical of them they might try to
commandeer the Flamboyant."
     "I'd like to see them try." laughed Gresha stroking the side
of the tilly with the armored gloves of her battle dress.
     Jietlshaiepr shook her head and checked her fusion gun,
"They just better not.  We've got enough troubles as it is."
     "They obviously need help or they would not have requested
this meeting." observed Vole.  "It is not beyond human capacity
to take what they need."
          - XXIII -
     Vole stalked through the underbrush of the prairie towards
the grounded Air/Raft, pausing to examine the territory for signs
of travel.
     An animal had passed through the underbrush three hours ago,
large, approximately one hundred twenty kilograms, hooves with
three divisions, probably a herbivore, the tracks indicated a
foot built for agility or climbing, not clawing or a weapon.
Herbivores could be dangerous, but probably not to as well armed
a party as Flamboyant's crew.
     At six hundred meters, Vole flicked on his telescopic vision
from concealment in the grasses.  Two figures in battle dress,
two in combat armor, Imperial model battle dress with League of
suns emblems.  The figures in battle dress were carrying gauss
rifles and one was carrying a large primitive plasma gun:  almost
assuredly a PGMP-12.  The two in combat armor were unarmed, but
laser rifles were nearby.  Three of the reception committee had
their helmets open and appeared to be women.  The fourth, in
combat armor, had the helmet fastened.
     Vole crept closer and began to scan for neural activity.  At
five hundred meters the neural activity sensor picked up the
committee.  A bit weak for four, but there were no other large
life forms in range.
     At three hundred meters Vole could advance no further
without being seen, and he began to circle the Air/Raft to cover
the entire area with his NAS.  It didn't take long to discover
the area was clean of ambushers.  It did take a longer time to
resolve the psionic emanations of the Air/Raft crew.  There were
only two sources of neural activity.
          - XXIV -
     The radio sang out as the Gig landed.  "Surgeon Lt. Jones
here, Flamboyant Gig, do ya hove any males aboard?"
     Jietlshaiepr, took the radio confused, "Affirmative, Jones."
     "There's a bioagent loose on the planet:  lethal te ninety
two percent o' human males exposed an' point six percent o'
females.  All humans must wear protective clothing.  I hove a
serum which hos so far proven effective, bu' only as a vaccine.
It doesn'a cure victims, but can provides inoculation."
     "Thank you for the warning."
     The cargo lift dropped to the ground lowering Kfoks in the
Tilly while Jietlshaiepr and Gresha flew out on their grav belts.
Shtam climbed down the landing ladder.
     Jones stepped up, unarmed, presenting himself and opening
the helmet of his combat armor, and bowed in imitation of Zhodani
fashion.
     "Not bad looking," thought Jietlshaiepr to herself as she
nodded acknowledging him (nobles don't bow), "If only he were
Zhodani height..."
     Vole sounded on a private radio circuit, "Watch him, he's
psi-shielded."
     "Surgeon Lt. Jones." he said by way of introduction. "Allow
me te welcome ya te Welles."
     Shtam, picking up the role of lieutenant made the
introductions, "Allow me to introduce our exalted captain:  in
your terms the Lt. Dame Jietlshaiepr." the title was redundant,
but it would reinforce Jietlshaiepr as an authority figure.
     "Force leader Taek Kfoks..." he gestured to the huge form of
Kfoks in the tilly.  Kfoks turned the head of the tilly to focus
on Jones as though unintentionally bringing the tilly's laser
welder, gauss rifle, RAM auto grenade launcher and fusion gun to
bear on Jones head.
     "First Lt. Gresha..." Gresha nodded to Jones and shouldered
her own fusion gun.
     "And I am Shtam." he bowed, ill concealing the gauss rifle
strapped to his back.
     The private frequency sounded with Shtam's voice.  "The two
officers are carrying concealable submachine guns:  those
featureless black boxes on their belts."
     Jones introduced his party.  The woman in combat armor was
Surgeon Ens. Smith who Vole cautioned was also psi-shielded,
while the two League marines in battle dress were Cpl. Delt and
Pvt. Walker.  Walker carried what was definitely a PGMP-12 of
League manufacture.
     "How many humans in yer crew captain?" asked Jones, "I've
got te give ya sufficient vaccine fer ya an' yer crew."
     "We have five humans aboard." stated Jietlshaiepr.  "I
require an additional dose to examine myself, along with a sample
of the bioagent."
     "Agreed, I thought ya'd want a sample.  I hove six doses
here yer free to examine.  The virus is possibly type 9 or A
selective:  It reads human genetic material an' kills unless
certain genes are present.  It's usually a race specific disease,
bu' in this case, it's also a sex specific one."
     "What genetic structure does it attack?"
     Jones put on an authoritative air, "Ah, it combines with
skin pigmentation genes on the DNA strand.  Whar certain genes
are present, the DNA's modified so that in the normal protein
synthesis process, whar the cell would ordinarily produce
pigment, the cell produces toxic combinations of amino acids.
     "However in women," he continued, "the gene sites appear to
be affected differently:  the toxins created merely result in
sterility."
     "And what type of vaccine have you against this virus?"
sighed Jietlshaiepr trying to sound unimpressed.
     Jones shifted his weight from one foot to the other, "The
serum is a standard one with little modification.  It actually is
a serum we use to correct genetic diseases an' birth defects by
restructuring the DNA to the normal pattern."
     "WHICH normal pattern?  There are many.  As many as there
are human races."
     "Ah, yea..." stumbled Jones.  "Actually we originally
developed this stuff from work done in the Dynchia Commita, so I
presume it's their 'normal' genetic pattern."
     "So you don't mind your children having a mane, fangs and
six fingers:  very liberal of you Lt. Jones."
     Jones laughed, "Ah, my own gametes are in a sperm bank
somewhere back home.  The League wouldn'a dare lose these hands."
     Ensign Smith interjected, "It should correct defects, not
traits."
     "I would presume that the Dynchia would regard traits such
as having only five fingers defective." observed Jietlshaiepr.
     "I concur." interjected Jones, "But, we've modified it fer
our own uses.  An' anyway, there's a mixture o' just about every
human race in the League, even Zhodani.  I'd assume it won't
radically change yer crew's genetic structure, Cap'n
Jietlshaiepr.  If that's what ya fear, I'd suggest that ya put
samples of yer own crew's gametes in cold storage."
     "I shall have to investigate what genetic structures it does
effect before deciding wither or not to use it.  There probably
are less drastic ways of dealing with this than your serum, but
the availability of such medications is not immediate.
     "What do you know about non humans?  Are any other species
affected by the disease?"
     "Not that we know of."  Commented Smith, "There're a few
Aslani an' Vargr on Welles but they've not been affected.
     "By the way," she continued with one eyebrow raised, "I
couldn'a help noticing that yer're flying an Imperial built Gig,
like one from a Gazelle class close escort..."
     "The Flamboyant is from the Fiery sub-class of the Gazelle."
corrected Kfoks, "Gazelle class escorts are not streamlined, and
can not enter atmospheres."
     "An ex-corsair, captured by my crew." explained
Jietlshaiepr, "Probably from this very same pirate band."
     "Ahh, then you are Not Zhodani navy." observed Smith.  "An'
Zhodani military wouldn't carry Vargr troops either."
     "Not necessarily." she admitted, and changed the subject.
"Lt. Jones, you asked us here for a meeting.  What is it you
wish?"
     "Ah, partly te congratulate you on yer actions an' escape,
an' partly to osk yer assistance.  With the Spindleman out o'
action, there's a limit to what we can do here.  Whot exactly is
the situation in orbit?"
     "Star Rider vaporized, taking most of her attack craft with
her.  There are still two SDBs in orbit watching the Flamboyant.
There may yet be a Fanzheinz class trader out there.
     "As for the Spindleman, the last we saw on our instruments
it was heading for a bail out."
     "They're alive?"
     "It would seem so, they had partially recovered power.  That
was the last I heard of them.  We presumed you would have
arranged their pick up."
     Jones hit his radio circuit.  "Recon one, go to five
kilometers altitude and scan.  Report any re-entrys or homing
beacons."
     Vole came over the radio, "I can make out a military recon
robot climbing.  Distance:  one point six kilometers."
     "Exactly what is the disposition of the enemy encampment you
mentioned?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     Corporal Delt stepped forward eyeing the Flamboyant's crew
with a degree of distrust.  "Me an' Walker made a recon sweep out
on the island they hold.  Got in pretty close:  managed ta get a
pretty good look.  They got two four hundred ton fat traders in
camouflage, three 'eavy artillery platforms, two G-carriers, an'
an Air/Roft.  I guess their strength's about a company:  about A
hundred an' twenty."
     "They appear te be on a slave taking mission." interjected
Jones.  "The population of several small towns hove vanished."
     "I would estimate that the two traders could lift the
company an' equipment, but not with any cargo of slaves."
     "Yeah," agreed Delt.  "They got a crater fenced off:  looks
like it was blasted wi' artillery:  prob'ly where they keep
pris'ners.  We tried gettin' in closer bu' they saw us.  We took
fire, woulda been hit if they'da used bullets.  They splattered
us wi' tranq rounds.  We took off an' our 'bots covered us.  Took
'em a while ta get anything heavy on us, bu' they opened up wi' a
light assault gun an' that damaged the 'bots some."
     The recon robot came over the radio, "Have found three re-
entry traces and one auto-distress signal."
     Jones looked confused, "Coming from the re-entry?"
     "Negative, out at sea:  bearing:  one hundred four degrees,
range:  seven hundred forty kilometers approximate.  Also picking
up three craft moving to intercept re-entrys and distress signal."
     "Identify craft."
     "Craft moving to intercept re-entry tracks are two G-carriers. 
Craft moving to intercept distress signal is one Air/Raft."
     Jietlshaiepr thought out loud, "We downed about five
SDBs..."
     "Then this'd be our chance te get a prisoner." concluded
Smith.
          - XXV -
     The plan formed quickly.  Cpl. Delt took the Air/Raft and
recon robot after the freefalling Spindleman's crew.  They would
be able to pick up two before the G-carriers got there.  A guard
robot would take care of the third crew member.  Meanwhile, there
was the distress signal to answer...
          - XXVI -
     The Gig raced over the surface of Welles under Shtam's
careful piloting.
     Ens. Smith sat tensely as she related Welles culture, "The
planet 'ad a feudal system set up about a hundred years ago when
the free trader Warsaw set down.  They hod jump drive trouble:
they couldn'a make jump an' couldn'a repair it.
     "The Warsaw's captain usurped the government in an attempt
te get 'is ship repaired, bu' the power struggle took a while an'
when they hod the means to leave they didn'a want to:  they'd
conquered the whole bloody planet.
     "Not all Welles nobles accepted the usurper, bu' the crew
were pretty innovative; managed te take the ship's cargo of grav
modules an' build whot are essentially:  grav powered ironclads.
With air power, the crew managed te make the claim te the throne
stick.  Actually, it's not a throne:  the Warsaw's now the palace
of the government so it's the command chair.  The ship can'na
take off, bu' it's still operational.  The fusion plant powers
the main city around the starport.
     "The position of captain's hereditary.  The current captain:
Captain Billy the Third is'na able te 'andle the responsibility.
'e locked himself in the Warsaw until we arrived te avoid the
plague.  Maybe it saved 'is life, but with no government the
whole planet's in turmoil:  totally unable to 'andle the slavers.
     "Most of their grav ironclads are out of commission, not
because they've engaged the mercenaries, other than a few minor
skirmishes, bu' because nearly half their crews are dead from the
bioagent."
     Kfoks cocked his ears, "Is there any organization still
intact among the natives?"
     Smith took a deep breath, "Well, their navy still hos a few
ships operational:  four or five aerial ironclads, no' counting
what surface ships they have left.  They lost most or all o'
their dirigibles an' surface ships when the crews caught the
plague:  just couldn'a handle the ship when bad weather caught
'em.  The ironclads had the speed to make it back te base before
the crews died.
     "They've got one large aerial ironclad an' several smaller
ones.  Their admiral's kept their flagship going by transferring
crews:  the Pasadena. I tell you, they're the weirdest looking
things I've ever seen:  grav technology with steam engine
propellers and cannons."
     Kfoks regarded her closely, "What's the population of this
planet?"
     Smith took a deep breath and closed her eyes, "Two months
ago, it were seven million, eight hundred thousand people."
images of the last two weeks of death passed over her face.  "We
estimate... three an' a half million dead."

Stay Tunaed folx!

------------------------------

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Date: Wed Jul 22 21:00:17 PDT 1992
From: traveller-request@metolius.wr.tek.com (TML Administrator)
Subject: TML Bundle #373: Table of Contents

-AMN- --Date--- --Sender--------- --Subject-----------------------------------
4459  16-Jul-92 James Johannesson Thoughts on Assassination from Space << Hey A
4460  16-Jul-92 jdriver@netlink.c Re: Orbital Surveillance << Scott 2G Kellogg 
4461  16-Jul-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl Counter-Corsair Forces << Well, I have a smal
4462  16-Jul-92 A_COPEAB@CCSVAX.S orbital energy weapons << [much discussion ab
4463  17-Jul-92 Mark F. Cook      Terminal Velocity & Orbital Assassination << 
4464  17-Jul-92 Cynthia Higginbot Steve's Comments << Adam Rios: >1: What exact
4465  17-Jul-92 Mark F. Cook      Oops! Mia Culpa... << > The worlds record for
4466  17-Jul-92 cat@fgssu1.fgs.sl Grav Belts, Terminal Velocity << Ok, for thos
4467  18-Jul-92 jdriver@netlink.c re: Question on AT's << Recently I posted a q
4468  20-Jul-92 grue@cs.uq.oz.au  Re: Assassination from Space << hi, John Driv
4469  20-Jul-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. Terminal Velocity << >- ---------------------
4470  20-Jul-92 PHB100@PSUVM.PSU. asl;dfj << > >Paul Dale | grue@cs.uq.oz.au >D
4471  20-Jul-92 bart@sisters.cs.u Re: Grav Belts, Terminal V (TML biweekly: Msg
4473  20-Jul-92 GT2150@SIUCVMB.SI no such thing. << A couple days ago Adam Rios
4474  20-Jul-92 cadpoole@atlas.cs Product Comments Please << I recentlypurchase
4475  20-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU Terminal Velocity << Mark sez: }The accepted 
4476  20-Jul-92 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AU 250MW lasers in atmosphere << Brandon Cope se
4477  20-Jul-92 Mark F. Cook      Re: Terminal Velocity << Scott sez: > Mark se
4478  20-Jul-92 sfellows@slate.Mi  << I am looking for the Ringworld roleplayin

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4459
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1992 14:06 CST
From: James Johannesson - Registrar's Office - 6763
Subject: Thoughts on Assassination from Space

Hey All.... 

  Just got on the list again after a long long long absense. I just
read Scott's message and had a few thoughts of my own.

>Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1992 13:45 CST
>From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
>Subject: (4456) Orbital Surveillance, Grav Belts, and Antimatter
>
>The images they get are almost good enough to identify individuals.  It
>seems to me that if the troops involved carried Identification Friend or
>Foe Transponders (as we assume is carried in combat armor and battle dress)
>You could easily target individuals on the surface of a planet from orbit.
>The images were THAT clear.  I'm not even sure you'd need transponders.
>You could see what they were wearing, and if the uniforms of the troops
>were sufficiently different, it would be child's play.
>That means that just about every ship that carries a laser would be
>absolutely DEADLY to ANYONE on the ground.  You wanna assassinate Lucan?
>Just go into orbit around Capital and wait till he steps outside!

A great idea, but wouldn't an atmosphere cause problems with this sort
of stuff (i.e. shots from orbits for assassination)?? But does that mean then
that the range of a Laser Rifle is increased on Vaccuum worlds since it doesn't
have any resistance because of atmosphere (what about dense worlds??) Any
comments from the Physics majors out there on the mechanics of laser/bullet
fire in other than normal (i.e. earth-like conditions??) I mean, when
you think of it, when your using a shotgun in a dense atmosphere, wouldn't
the range be shorter??? Is this thought of in the game mechanics? I don't 
think so..........

>You mentioned similar errors in the vehicle archives?  OUR vehicle
>archives?  Not in MY designs!  Where!  Where!  I may make the occasional
>typoxsh#4, but I don't think *I'm* guilty of common sense mistakes like
>the ones in the Imp Encyclopedia.

I agree with Scott here for sure... the Imp. Encyclopedia SUCKS for typo's/
errors.... too many beers that night for whoever did them. BTW, Scott, did
anyone ever think of writing a hypercard stack for keeping those designs?
(or do you have one??) A friend of mine recently pulled some of the designs 
off the net and thought it would be cool to put them (with a picture of
course) onto a Hypercard Stack. He has been thinking of doing it, but
alas, a new girlfriend is taking away his Hypercard programming time.
Anyone have anything like this???

James aka "Trader Bob" Johannesson
Internet: johannesson@admin.usask.ca

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4460
Subject: Re: Orbital Surveillance
From: jdriver@netlink.cts.COM (John Driver)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 15:10:53 PDT

Scott 2G Kellogg writes:
> The images they get are almost good enough to identify individuals.  It
> seems to me that if the troops involved carried Identification Friend or
> Foe Transponders (as we assume is carried in combat armor and battle 
dress)
> You could easily target individuals on the surface of a planet from orbit.
> The images were THAT clear.  I'm not even sure you'd need transponders.
> You could see what they were wearing, and if the uniforms of the troops
> were sufficiently different, it would be child's play.
> 
>         "Yes sir!  We've got the Zhodani General targeted!"
> 
> The old line in the 60's was "We can read the numbers off the liscense
> plates with the spy satillites."  Well, we know that isn't true, but
> given a passive array that we say has 'Interstellar' range, I can see
> there being a LOT better resolution than what we have today.
> 
> That means that just about every ship that carries a laser would be
> absolutely DEADLY to ANYONE on the ground.  You wanna assassinate Lucan?
> Just go into orbit around Capital and wait till he steps outside!
 
 
        Well, back in February there was a discussion on Striker, 
and one of the things that came up was exactly that, I believe.  
Lemme go check. . .
      Here it is:
 
 
Bertil writes:
  I checked the Fire Control difficulties table in MegaT, and it revealed
an interesting thing: Even at hight TLs it isn't easy to hit a target at 
5 to 50km range and close to impossible at 50-500km. If we accept
this, and factor in the movement DMs, it will be very hard for the navy to 
hit a Gravtank at all. One could make a case for the tank being treated as a
fighter, but it would have to be above the ground clutter for that, so 
the threat of an orbital navy against NOE tanks is not that high.
              

- --                    
INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdriver
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4461
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 92 18:19:47 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Juanna B. A. Sleep)
Subject: Counter-Corsair Forces


Well, I have a small problem in that I have a character who is much better
at fleet and ship tactics than I will ever be.  My character has also survived
to achieve flag rank in the Navy, which means suddenly I have to worry about
ships and fleets and such!  I need help!

So here's a question for all you fleet tactics types (of which I'm not).
If you had your choice of two squadrons to try to combat the vargr corsairs 
moving into the Domain of Deneb, what sort of squadrons would you pick and why?

It's safe to assume that the vargr ship profiles listed in the rebellion book
are typical of what the Navy types in this little fleet would be up against
(well, that's what my friendly local GM is taking as a default for corsair
fleets).

It looks like my character is going to get a choice of anything, so long as
it doesn't exceed two squadrons worth of ships.  I'm open to what all you
ship tactics experts think. Really, indulge yourselves.  I'm literally all
ears here.

Catie "desperate to survive the next campaign" Helm

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4462
Date:    Thu, 16 Jul 1992 22:42:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: A_COPEAB@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (Brandon Cope)
Subject: orbital energy weapons

[much discussion about satellites and Patriot Games deleted]

>That means that just about every ship that carries a laser would be
>absolutely DEADLY to ANYONE on the ground.  You wanna assassinate Lucan?
>Just go into orbit around Capital and wait till he steps outside!

Um, wouldn't there be a problem firing through an atmosphere, as in laser
dispersion? Light from the stars *is* dispersed when it comes though the 
atmosphere -- that's a big part of the reason to have an orbital telescope.
Granted, a 100MW laser won't get hurt much, but at a 100* km range, a 0.001 
degree error would result in a miss by 1.75 meters.

Also, a ship loitering around in low orbit would get attention paid to it.
That's what orbital defense satellites with mondo armor and space weapons
are meant to deal with...

Brandon Cope

	* - Okay, I'm not sure what exactly constitutes low orbit -- this
was just a guesstimate.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4463
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Terminal Velocity & Orbital Assassination
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 0:38:35 PDT

Scott Kellogg writes:

> The maximum listed speed for a man wearing a grav belt is 300km/hr.
> Why?  Drag?  Skydivers travel MUCH faster than that.

Nope, actually they travel a lot slower.  The accepted terminal
velocity for a falling human body is around 120 MPH (200 kph).
I asked a friend of mine who dives (sky *and* SCUBA) and he says
that with normal jump suits (which are deliberately loose and floppy
to retard rate of descent) the average velocity for a jumper is more
like 90 MPH (the idea being that you get to stay in the air longer
if you fall slower).

> Case:  I forget when it was done, but sometime back in the 50's-60's they
> were experimenting with high altitude ejection.  I remember hearing a guy
> talk about setting the world record for the highest parachute jump on some
> documentary or other.  He said that on the way down he actually went
> supersonic.  When he got into the thicker atmosphere, he slowed way, way
> down before he pulled the chute.

The worlds record for the highest parachute jump was set on August
16th, 1960, but Capt. Joseph Kittinger Jr. USAF, when he said, "Lord,
take care of me now." and stepped out of a pressurized, high-altitude
balloon suspended gondola at an altitude of 102,800 ft. over White
Sands Missile Range near Alamogordo, New Mexico.  The total length of
the jump, from bail-out to touchdown was 13 minutes and 45 seconds.
Kittinger freefell from 102,800 ft. down to 96,000 ft., at which point
he deployed a 6 ft. stabilization 'chute to keep from tumbling.  The
atmosphere is so thin at that altitude that he continued to accelerate
for another 6,000 ft. before hitting a peak velocity of 614 MPH, which
is 90 percent the speed of sound at that altitude (90,000 ft.), and
is 83 percent the speed of sound at sea level.  At 17,500 ft., 4 minutes
and 38 seconds after he began the jump, he deployed his main canopy and
floated to the ground.

To the best of my knowledge, this record stands today.  No skydiver in
history has broken the sound barrier in freefall.

Next, James Johannesson writes (w.r.t. Scott Kellogg's comments on
imaging assassination targets from orbit):

> A great idea, but wouldn't an atmosphere cause problems with this sort
> of stuff (i.e. shots from orbits for assassination)?? But does that mean
> then that the range of a Laser Rifle is increased on Vaccuum worlds since
> it doesn't have any resistance because of atmosphere (what about dense
> worlds??) Any comments from the Physics majors out there on the mechanics
> of laser/bullet fire in other than normal (i.e. earth-like conditions??)

Atmosphere *does* screw up long laser shots, as evidenced by the results
of the SDI MIRCL (Midrange InfraRed Chemical Laser) tests in the early 80's.
Even at a range of < 20 miles, there was significant beam diffusion and
energy loss.  In addition to airborne crud (dust, pollen, bugs, ultra-
light pilots, etc.) which block and scatter the beam, there is the problem
of the clear atmosphere itself.  Under the stimulation of a high-energy
laser, the air in the path of the beam heats to an energized plasma state,
which then presents the same sort of problems as airborne particles.  The
main problem is defocusing of the beam (the assumption being that a large
enough power source can pump a laser beam of such high energy that any
energy loss in transit will still leave enough punch to toast the target
at the other end).  Current ground-based laser research is attempting to
overcome this beam diffusion by using computer-controlled variable geometry
mirrors.  As the beam is diffused in the atmosphere, that beam scatter is
automatically measured by the computer and the mirror's geometry is modified
to correct for the diffusion.  Success so far has been only moderate,
according to de-classified documents on the research.  (FYI, Tom Clancy
covers this subject a fair amount, in layman's terms, in his novel
_A_Cardinal_in_the_Kremlin_.)

> I mean, when you think of it, when your using a shotgun in a dense
> atmosphere, wouldn't the range be shorter??? Is this thought of in the
> game mechanics? I don't think so..........

It probably does affect thh range , but unless that atmosphere has the
consistency of Campbell's Cream of Potato soup, and you are firing at
a target at long range++, it shouldn't make any difference.

Later,
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4464
Date: 17 Jul 92 11:49:38 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Steve's Comments

Adam Rios:

>1: What exactly does au meen?

"AU" means Astronomical Unit, the distance from here to the sun
(149,600,000Km)

>2: What are some of you seasoned players opinions on Traveller 2300AD?

Well, its not really Traveller 2300 anymore.  Now its 2300AD.  I like
it, but I may very well be the only onw on this list who does...


Scott "2G" Kellogg:

>Since Wet NAvy has come out, I use it, but I think Rob is right:  We
>need to incorporate George's ideas into a Good design system for ships.

	We also need to come up with a power-speed table that makes sense. 
When your wet-navy rules allow you to build ships that can pull 30Kts
for 5000nm with smaller power plants than real world ships use to reach
20Kts, something is wrong.
	Useful clue:  speed is proportional to cube root of power.


Catie Helm:

>So here's a question for all you fleet tactics types (of which I'm
>not).  If you had your choice of two squadrons to try to combat the
>vargr corsairs moving into the Domain of Deneb, what sort of squadrons
>would you pick and why?

Your GM may be in for something of a shock.

	My recommendation:  Use my Norway/Sikkintar combination.  It should
be on the list sometime last year.  If you can't find it, I'll send it
to you.  This is just one battleship plus its four riders, but it will
be able to defeat ANY number of the Vargr ships from Rebellion
Sourcebook, without taking a single hit.  Which is why I would use it.

	Alternate recommendation:  Cynthia posted a "Sylea" class heavy
fighter here last year.  Any fighter carrier carrying more than 30 of
them can defeat ANY combination of Vargr.

	As long as you GM will let you have two squadrons, you can go for
overkill:  A Squadron of Norway class ships is four Norways (with their
sixteen Sikkintars), plus eight escorts (presumably P.F. Sloan class).
Add in a squadron of Admiral class light carriers, which is 5 Admirals,
plus their 200 "Syleas".  (The Admiral class has yet to be posted, since
we haven't bothered to convert it to MT rules yet - if you want it, ask)

	Any of these three choices (a single Norway, a single carrier w/
Syleas, or two squadrons worth) will be able to defeat all the Vargr in
the Marches, if (a) the Vargr are using that dreck from Rebellion
Sourcebook, and (b) the Vargr are STUPID enough to stick around and
fight.  After a few fights, the Vargr should run like rabbits whenever
you appear.
	It is going to shock your GM if you use one of these
recommendations, because he/she will quickly find that the Vargr
Incursion is the largest non-problem in history.  You can get yourself a
pile of medals, the Vargr can be driven back to their kennels, and the
course of Imperial history will change for the better.  

	On this note, Cynthia and I are going to put together some Vargr
ships that are worth the money it cost to build them, as soon as we
determine what TL the "average" Vargr ship should be.  I'll bet it isn't
eleven!


------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4465
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Oops!  Mia Culpa...
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 19:12:57 PDT

> The worlds record for the highest parachute jump was set on August
> 16th, 1960, but Capt. Joseph Kittinger Jr. USAF, when he said, "Lord,
> take care of me now." and stepped out of a pressurized, high-altitude
> balloon suspended gondola at an altitude of 102,800 ft. over White
> Sands Missile Range near Alamogordo, New Mexico.

My mistake.  Kittinger's capsule was *not* pressurized.  It was an
open gondola, loaded with cameras and measurement instruments.  Kittinger
had only his pressure suit to protect himself from the high altitude.

	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4466
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 92 19:40:00 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.COM (Juanna B. A. Sleep)
Subject: Grav Belts, Terminal Velocity



Ok, for those of you who abhor the attacks of the killer physics
nerds (sounds like a bad B movie...), you can skip this post.

- -----------------------!!! NERD ATTACK !!!----------------------------

> Terminal velocity is the speed at which the drag of falling through
> the air exactly balances the force of gravity pulling you down.  

The resistance of air to the motion of bodies in free fall depends on
a lot of different stuff - for example: the size of the body, its
shape, its density, the temperature of the air, the density of the
atmosphere with respect to height, the velocity of the body through
the resisting medium...

Lots of variables...I'd worry about them only if I had the leisure to
set up the numerical analysis.  Here's a useful approximation instead -
I confess, one straight out of Halliday and Resnick...  ;-)

     the resisting force of air is proportional to the velocity
     of the falling body (and is, of course, acting in the opposite
     direction of the falling body, ie upwards)

Making this approximation gets us right to an expression for terminal
velocity that's approximately correct:

                         k Vt = mg   _or_   Vt = (mg)/k

     where Vt is terminal velocity, mg is the mass of the object times
     the gravitational constant, and k is some proportionality constant

>> ...but sometime back in the 50's-60's they were experimenting with
>> high altitude ejection

Now as distance from the surface of the earth ingreases, the density
of the atmosphere thins (which will decrease the value of k).  But the
value of g also decreases with height.  Close to the surface of the
earth (less than 10000 ft (3000 m) smells like a good approximation to
me), you could probably happily assume that both g and k were
constant, and your rule of thumb would be ok.  So far, so good...

However, I believe the heights to which Scott was referring were
vastly in excess of 10000 ft - more along the lines of greater than
50000 ft.  At those heights, g is less and so is k.  k however is
dependent on more than just density, it's dependent on temperature,
and on the variation of density with height (which is NOT linear!
because the elemental/molecular composition of the atmosphere changes
with height also).  Anyway, k will decrease faster than g, with the
result that Vt is greater at higher altitudes.  Scott's very high
altitude parachutist could easily have been doing quite a klip
there...

Did the parachutist who set the record really exceed the speed of
sound?  I don't know myself.  Let's look at the physics real fast: the
speed of sound in a gas can be expressed as - 
     ____________________________ 
v =\/(a const)(pressure)/density)

so we're looking at the ratio, really, between pressure (which will
decrease with height) and density (which will also decrease with
height).  Which one decreases faster?  I haven't a clue! :-(  Anyone
out there with a good aero-engineering handbook?  :-)  A good text on
planetary science (believe it or not, that's where I learned most of
this atmosphere stuff) would have also all this stuff in there.

You know, ever since I discovered Traveller, I've been kicking myself
for having tossed my planetary science notes from grad school.  :-(
There have been so many times that I've wanted to reread them since I
started playing this fool game...

- -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Possibly, GDW considers grav belts to put out a constant force, 
> therefore, they would produce constant speed at max output, like
> terminal velocity.

I think it is possible, perhaps, that you have confused velocity and
force?  The force that a grav belt would put out would have to be
variable.  Otherwise, there would be no control on velocity!  Recall
that force is (mass x acceleration).  If the force is always constant,
then there would always be constant acceleration and ever increasing
speed (assuming, of course, that the grav belt force exceeds g...). I
think you must have misstated yourself :-) because to achieve a
constant velocity, you must accelerate (ie you must use a force
greater than the forces opposing you, which in this case are drag and
gravity) and then having achieved your desired velocity, the force
then must decrease to match the opposing forces such that the desired
velocity is maintained.

I myself have always ignored the limitations on grav belts - what sane
person would want to go that lethally fast anyway?  ;-) (This from a
woman who's been riding motorcycles for 10 years...)  If you can have
a grav belt which MUST exert a force greater than the sum of gravity
and drag, then depending on how heavy the mass in the grav belt is,
you can go as fast as you are patient enough to accelerate to...  How
fast you can accelerate, however, is an entirely different matter!
;-) On the other hand, there's nothing that says there aren't either
speed limits (*gasp* no, not SPEED LIMTS!!!) or speed governers in the
grav belts themselves.

Anyway, that's enough for one evening's worth of nerd attack.  Having
stuck my neck out, I'll cheerfully invite correction for any of the
REAL physicists out there...  ;-)

Catie "Just Another Armchair-Physicist" Helm



------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4467
Subject: re: Question on AT's
From: jdriver@netlink.cts.COM (John Driver)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 92 22:51:15 PDT

 
        Recently I posted a question to the TML.  I didn't receive 
an answer, and it seems like a rather simple question.  I asked:
 
How does a character who already has a skill gain an AT in that 
skill through experience only?
 
        There are 280 people on this list.  All of them play 
Traveller.  Someone has to know the answer to this!  Please read 
page 41-42 in the Players Handbook, specifically the passages where 
it says:
 
        . . . if the character succeeds, he receives a temporary 
skill level-0 for use in the next task attempt with this skill (and 
then loses the skill level-0)
 
and
 
        If the character already has the pertinent skill, success 
increases the skill one level.
 
        Two of my players and I have puzzled over this and we can't 
find an answer.
 
        Also, is this the correct process for gaining an AT for an 
unskilled character?  1) observe (task of Diff, Determination).  If 
successful, gain skill observed skill at level-0.  2) Try out skill 
at level-0.  If successful, gain an AT in that skill.  3) Once you 
think you have sufficient AT's for a skill, succeed in (Formidable, 
AT, Int) to gain that skill at level 1.


- --                    
INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdriver
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4468
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 11:30:44 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Re: Assassination from Space

hi,


John Driver writes,

>        Well, back in February there was a discussion on Striker, 
>and one of the things that came up was exactly that, I believe.  
>Lemme go check. . .
>      Here it is:


>Bertil writes:
>  I checked the Fire Control difficulties table in MegaT, and it revealed
>an interesting thing: Even at hight TLs it isn't easy to hit a target at 
>5 to 50km range and close to impossible at 50-500km. If we accept
>this, and factor in the movement DMs, it will be very hard for the navy to 
>hit a Gravtank at all. One could make a case for the tank being treated as a
>fighter, but it would have to be above the ground clutter for that, so 
>the threat of an orbital navy against NOE tanks is not that high.


I can believe that hitting things from orbit is difficult when you'er chucking
things that don't correct their own aim.  A 'smart' missile should be able to
hit just about anything it desires.  Okay, if the target is capable of
evasive action then it might miss and it is possible to shoot down a missile
with point defence weapons but if a single person is the target, I don't see
too many problems hitting them.  They don't exactly move very quickly, and you
don't have to score a direct hit to kill them (especially with a decent sized
tac-nuke :-).  I don't think current missile technology is up to the task, but
by TL12 or 15 it should be.  Can it really be that difficult to design a small
missile with a decent robot brain????






        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4469
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Mon, 20 Jul 92 10:10 EDT
Subject: Terminal Velocity

>- -----------------------!!! NERD ATTACK !!!----------------------------
>
>> Terminal velocity is the speed at which the drag of falling through
>> the air exactly balances the force of gravity pulling you down.
>
>The resistance of air to the motion of bodies in free fall depends on
>a lot of different stuff - for example: the size of the body, its
>shape, its density, the temperature of the air, the density of the
>atmosphere with respect to height, the velocity of the body through
>the resisting medium...
>
>Lots of variables...I'd worry about them only if I had the leisure to
>set up the numerical analysis.  Here's a useful approximation instead -

Well, yes, but what I said was correct...Vt _is_ the speed at which drag
balances gravity.

>- -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Possibly, GDW considers grav belts to put out a constant force,
>> therefore, they would produce constant speed at max output, like
>> terminal velocity.
>
>I think it is possible, perhaps, that you have confused velocity and
>force?

I rarely confuse velocity and force  8+)

>        The force that a grav belt would put out would have to be
>variable.  Otherwise, there would be no control on velocity!  Recall

Too true.

>that force is (mass x acceleration).  If the force is always constant,
>then there would always be constant acceleration and ever increasing
>speed (assuming, of course, that the grav belt force exceeds g...). I
>think you must have misstated yourself :-) because to achieve a

True, I did make a mistatement there.  It should have been a variable force,
but with some arbitrary maximum (whether physics imposed or manufacturer
imposed).  I think of it like a car...if you depress the gas pedal half way,
you will accelerate to the point where the new forces of friction and drag
balances the new _x_ output of the engine (where x is power, work, force or
whatever is appropriate, I'm kind of fuzzy on that, it's been about seven years
since my last physics course dealing with those concepts).

>I myself have always ignored the limitations on grav belts - what sane
>person would want to go that lethally fast anyway?  ;-) (This from a
>woman who's been riding motorcycles for 10 years...)  If you can have

>;-) On the other hand, there's nothing that says there aren't either
>speed limits (*gasp* no, not SPEED LIMTS!!!) or speed governers in the
>grav belts themselves.

Probably either speed governors or powerplants small enough such that you
_can't_ go faster than about 300KPH....?

>Catie "Just Another Armchair-Physicist" Helm
>
Paul "Just another kitchenchair-Physicist" Baughman

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4470
From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Date:    Mon, 20 Jul 92 10:12 EDT
Subject: asl;dfj

>
>Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
>Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
>University of Queensland        |
>Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
>                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?
>
41?  In English?  or in all languages?  How about a list?

P.B.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4471
Subject: Re: Grav Belts, Terminal V (TML biweekly: Msg 4464 V29#6)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 07:54:22 -0700
From: bart@sisters.cs.uoregon.edu


Catie Helm writes:
> I'll cheerfully invite correction for any of the
> REAL physicists out there...  ;-)

I'm not a physicist, but I play one on the net... :-)

> I think it is possible, perhaps, that you have confused velocity and
> force?  The force that a grav belt would put out would have to be
> variable.  Otherwise, there would be no control on velocity!  Recall
> that force is (mass x acceleration).  If the force is always constant,
> then there would always be constant acceleration and ever increasing
> speed (assuming, of course, that the grav belt force exceeds g...). I
> think you must have misstated yourself :-) because to achieve a
> constant velocity, you must accelerate (ie you must use a force
> greater than the forces opposing you, which in this case are drag and
> gravity) and then having achieved your desired velocity, the force
> then must decrease to match the opposing forces such that the desired
> velocity is maintained.

Ah, but you just got through telling us that *drag is velocity
dependent*!  So clearly the prior poster *meant* constant
*maximum horizontal force* exertable by the grav belt.  Assume
for example that at most the grav belt can put out a constant
force which will accelerate the wearer horizontally from a
standing start at 1G.  Will the wearer keep accelerating
indefinitely?  No, the wearer will stop accelerating when the
reach *exactly terminal V*.  With twice as much force, one can
go somewhat faster, but not quite twice as fast, since drag is
actually nonlinear.  However if you use the H&R approximation
you quoted, then a grav belt with twice the force will achieve
twice the max V of our example grav belt above.

Me, I think I'll stick to walking -- heights make me giddy.

				Bart Massey
				bart@cs.uoregon.edu

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4473
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:28:53 CST
From: GT2150@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU
Subject: no such thing.

    A couple days ago Adam Rios sent a couple of questions to this list, and
with them he asked 'please don't think this stupid' I only wanted to say Adam
there is no such thing as a stupid question.

    And as many of you probally realize this is the first posting by me, taht's
 because I am a lurker, no honestly I don't play MT. I am a big SF RPG nut, and
 I played first ed. Trav for about 6 years  on a regular basis. So now i hang
around the list and remember. 'Sides you guys have some wonderful ideas.

                                              KA'GE
                                       GT2150@SIUCVMB           (BITNET)
                                       GT2150@SIUCVMB.SIU.EDU   (INTNET)
                                       GT2150@AIX370.SIU.EDU    (INTNET)
                                       CTURNER@NYX.CS.DU.EDU    (FREENET)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4474
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 17:33:28 -0300
From: cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca (Dale Poole)
Subject: Product Comments Please


I recentlypurchased some used Trav material, and I wondered if anyone could
offer comments on whether any of the stuff is good for anything.

I've read through all of them but one, and most of it seems to make sense.

Supplement 9: Fighting Ships

	According to the introduction, most of the ships in this book
	were designed using Book 5 'High Guard'.  I have never seen
	High Guard, and so, the High Guard stats are meaningless to me.

	Is this book still useful for someone struggling to learn
	Classic Trav?

Double Adventure 6: Night of Conquest/Divine Intervention

	Has anyone played either of these?  What are they like?
	Challenging, easy, suitable or not for beginners?

Fasa's Rescue on Galatea

	Same questions as for Dble Advent 6

MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual, Vol. 1

	Because the list has expressed so much grief over ship design
	in MegaTrav, I wonder if this book is useful for anything?

	Is there erata available for it?  Was there ever a Vol.2, and
	how necessary is it, to complete Vol. 1?

DGP's Grand Census

	I have yet to finish reading this one.  Seems to be pretty light
	and inconsequential stuff.  Is this book strictly for the
	'Let's invent some new aliens' crowd?

And finally, something from 'Seeker', called Merchant Class Ships, Vol. 1.

	The booklet says for use with Space Opera, but on some promo literature
	inside, it says also for use with Traveller.  However, no Trav stats
	are given for the ships.

	It would probably be a straight forward enough conversion, as there
	are floorplans for three ship designs; the Banner Class, Voyager Class,
	and the Zephyr Class.

	Has anyone used 'Seeker' products before?

Any and all comments are welcome, through e-mail, or if you feel it's required,
through the list.  I can summarize for the list, if anyone is interested.


Daleus
aka Dale Poole
cadpoole@atlas.cs.upei.ca

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4475
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 16:14 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Terminal Velocity

Mark sez:
}The accepted terminal velocity for a falling human body is
}around 120 MPH (200 kph).

While high drag jump suits allow lower speeds. (90Mph)

Hmm... those figures still seem fairly close.  What do you mean
by 'accelted terminal velocity'?  Is that a person wearing a
streamlined suit in a tucked down position?  If it is, then I
can see the 200kph speed being relevant for grav belt travel.
After all, a person in a grav belt is trying to travel as fast
as possible, and a parachutist is trying to travel as slowly as
possible.  (To allow for better aim, and safety)

The documentary I was referring to was an interview with the
guy Mark spoke of however (Capt. Kittinger)  In the interview he
claimed that he had indeed gone supersonic.  Now, Mark's source
of data sounds much more precise than the rather sensationalistic
documentary I saw, but I find the discrepancy rather disturbing. 
After all, there was the guy telling how he went supersonic,
without an aircraft.  Now, Mark sez he only hit Mach 0.9.  :-(

However, Mark does say that at his highest velocity, he did have
a 6 foot drag 'shute out which may have kept him from actually
hitting Mach 1.  Thus, it seems to me that it could indeed be
*theoretically* possible for a person in a grav belt (and a thin
atmosphere) to actually go supersonic.

Catie:
Drag is a non linear function as the velocity of travel
approaches the speed of sound.  I'm no aerodynamics jock, but if
I recall, the non-linear terms build up around the speed of sound
and then drop off.  The function is discontinuous at the speed of
sound.

Thus, you need a certain amount of thrust to get to the speed of
sound and then once beyond it, less thrust is needed to maintain
speed.

Halliday and Resnick are dealing with nice sophomore physics
students who don't have to worry about supersonic stuff.  :-)

Scott "2G" Kellogg
(Then again, *MY* fave freefall bit was Col. Coon in
_Dr. Strangelove_!  Talk about *TERMINAL* Velocity...
WAAAHOOOOO!!! :-)

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4476
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1992 16:15 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: 250MW lasers in atmosphere

Brandon Cope sez:
}but at a 100* km range, a 0.001 degree error would result
}in a miss by 1.75 meters.

Well, when you have a camera in orbit capable of resolving 10cm
objects on the surface, it's easy enough to correct fire.

Mark sez:
}SDI MIRCL(Midrange InfraRed Chemical Laser) tests
}in the early 80's.  Even at a range of < 20 miles, there was
}significant beam diffusion and energy loss.  In addition to
}airborne crud (dust, pollen, bugs, ultra-light pilots, etc.)

Don't forget the private and commercial pilots! :-)
     (not to mention grav belt nutz!  :-)

}which block and scatter the beam, there is the problem of the
}clear atmosphere itself.  Under the stimulation of a high-energy
}laser, the air in the path of the beam heats to an energized
}plasma state, which then presents the same sort of problems as
}airborne particles.  The main problem is defocusing of the beam
}(the assumption being that a large enough power source can pump
}a laser beam of such high energy that any energy loss in transit
}will still leave enough punch to toast the target at the other
}end).  Current ground-based laser research is attempting to
}overcome this beam diffusion by using computer-controlled
}variable geometry mirrors.  As the beam is diffused in the
}atmosphere, that beam scatter is automatically measured by the
}computer and the mirrors geometry is modified to correct for the
}diffusion.  Success so far has been only moderate, according to
}de-classified documents on the research.

Now, these tests are made with today's laser technology.  That
being lasers which go from infrared to ultraviolet.  The
atmosphere of the earth is notably transparent in the visible
range and becomes more optically thick the farther out you get
from that range (which is one of the reasons why we evolved to
see in what you and I call the 'visible' range.)

However, Traveller TL 13+ lasers are X-rays.  I do not know
exactly how transparent the atmosphere is in that range, but I
would say that if the human body is transparent to X-rays, the
atmosphere dang well outta be too.  Thus, much less energy will
be lost to the atmosphere than in IR to UV lasers.  Less energy
loss, the less the atmosphere will heat, therefore less beam
diffraction.

Also, when we are dealing with beams of ***250 MEGAwatts*** I
still think yer gonna give somebody an AWFUL sunburn...  Even
*with* Sunblock 50 million!  :-)  Heck!  Even the beam scattering
from a 250MW laser on the ground is gonna be lethal.  Think about
it:  A 250MW laser would *REALLY* light up a room...  You wear
goggles to protect your eyes from lasers of less than half a
watt.  And a 0.095milliwatt laser can damage your eye if you
stare at it.  You miss by a few meters and nobody will notice.

}(Tom Clancy covers this subject a fair amount, in layman's
}terms, in his novel _A_Cardinal_in_the_Kremlin_.)

Good book!  Got the man's autograph at a diamond convention he
addressed.  (diamond coated mirrors in that book)

Scott "Laser Jock" Kellogg

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4477
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Terminal Velocity
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 14:48:38 PDT

Scott sez:

> Mark sez:
> }The accepted terminal velocity for a falling human body is
> }around 120 MPH (200 kph).
> 
> While high drag jump suits allow lower speeds. (90Mph)
> 
> Hmm... those figures still seem fairly close.  What do you mean
> by 'accelted terminal velocity'?  Is that a person wearing a
> streamlined suit in a tucked down position?

Yup.  That's essentially the case.  When a skydiver goes for max. rate
of descent, they fold their hands flat against their sides (hips), spread
their legs at approximately 20-30 degrees (for stabilization), and arch
their backs and necks (basically facing into the wind).  This will offer
a head-downward angle of attack while presenting the smallest cross-section
of resistance.  I'm sure everybody has seen it before in the movies.

>                                              If it is, then I
> can see the 200kph speed being relevant for grav belt travel.
> After all, a person in a grav belt is trying to travel as fast
> as possible, and a parachutist is trying to travel as slowly as
> possible.  (To allow for better aim, and safety)

I can think of a number of arbitrary (that is, not required by physical
limits) reasons for the 300 khp limit.  Unaided respiration becomes very
difficult at those speeds.  Windburn (or actual heating) might start to
be a factor.  And then there's the "better aim and safety" that you mention.
Granted, none of these reasons present insurmountable obstacles.  A vacc-
suit with a really hot sensor suite would eliminate all those excuses. :^)

Regarding Capt. Kittinger and his high-altitude jump:

> However, Mark does say that at his highest velocity, he did have
> a 6 foot drag 'shute out which may have kept him from actually
> hitting Mach 1.  Thus, it seems to me that it could indeed be
> *theoretically* possible for a person in a grav belt (and a thin
> atmosphere) to actually go supersonic.

Maybe so.  In fact, maybe he *did* go supersonic at a somewhat lower
altitude.  If you check the Speed-of-Sound vs. Altitude graph in the
CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics (pg. F-169 in the 51st edition),
you'll find that the speed of sound is all over the spectrum depending
on your altitude.  Kittinger jumped at 102,800 ft., where the speed of
sound is about 307 m/sec. (or about 690 mph).  At around 82,500 ft.,
the speed of sound drops down to about 295 m/sec. (or approximately
664 mph.

Hmmm.  Well, according to those numbers, and my earlier research on
Kittinger's jump, he still didn't break the sound barrier, since his
documented top speed was 614 mph, which translates to about 273 m/sec.
According to the CRC, the speed of sound bottoms out at around 282
m/sec., at altitudes above 75 kilometers.

Later,
	- Mark C.

------------------------------

Archive-Message-Number: 4478
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 92 15:47:39 -0600
From: sfellows@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU (FELLOWS STEVEN B)

I am looking for the Ringworld roleplaying game that was put out by Chaosium.
If any of you have a copy that you are interested in selling please
contact me at my email address.  Also, if any of you know of a copy in a 
local store please send me their name and phone number so that I can 
get it.  Thank you...

I am also looking for the address and phone number of a store called
Weekend Warrior (s)  spelling?....  Can any of you help me?

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
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----------------------------------------------------------------------


Today's topics:

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 374  4484 21-Jul-1992 Richard Johnson  Re: Yesterday's Digest << There's just
 374  4485 21-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  More fun with Terminal Velocity << Well
 374  4486 21-Jul-1992 Derek Wildstar   Wildstar answers some questions << A bu
 374  4487 21-Jul-1992 PPUGLIESE@PimaC  X-ray transperancy << Regarding the abi
 374  4488 21-Jul-1992 metlay           X rays and so on << Scott Kellogg sez:
 374  4489 21-Jul-1992 Traveller Maili  Re: AT`s (A 2letter word with a in it!)
 374  4490 21-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  Transonic drag << Hey folks,
 374  4491 21-Jul-1992 Mark F. Cook     Re: Transonic drag << Scott sez:

------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4484
From: richard@agora.rain.COM (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Re: Yesterday's Digest
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 6:02:17 PDT



There's just too much good stuff in yesterday's mail to pass up.  Think
I comment on just about everyone's message at least once.  :=)

First:  James--when does the tml address change officially?  And what to?
(Or do you not yet know?)


Second, Dale Poole asks for our comments on some products.

:[supplement 9 -- fighting ships]
:	According to the introduction, most of the ships in this book
:	were designed using Book 5 'High Guard'.  I have never seen
:	High Guard, and so, the High Guard stats are meaningless to me.
:
:	Is this book still useful for someone struggling to learn
:	Classic Trav?

High Guard is one of the better Traveller products.  The ships it
produces are at least halfway consistent.  Takes a little while to
figure out their system, though.


:Double Adventure 6: Night of Conquest/Divine Intervention
:	Has anyone played either of these?  What are they like?
:	Challenging, easy, suitable or not for beginners?

You can handle Divine Intervention.  It's pretty easy (if it's the one
I'm thinking of) and has few major characters.  Just modify the premise
and set up a little to fit your campaign.


Third: A WHOLE BUNCH of terminal velocity stuff was discovered by the
victimizer, exegisis....

[Did he or did he not go supersonic.]
Well he certainly exceed the speed of sound on Mars.  :=)
He did go bloody fast.  In fact, (the urban legend style of history
that I remember says) he probably did not want to deply the drogue,
but realized he was starting to tumble, and that it would quickly
kill him if he didn't stop it.

Makes sense to me.  The human body is not terribly stable in air,
and at around .7M and up we should start to see the results of
compression of the airflow around parts of the body.  That is, for
instance the shoulder will produce more lift than the foot, for a
while, etc.

Me, Id' hate to experience the transonic region, with sock wave,
compressed flow, turbulence, and induced flutter, without the aid
of some titanium betweem me and the air.  :=)

[Whither 300 kph (200 mph)?]
I suspect its a power/fuel tradeoff.
In TL8 light aircraft, we can get about 200kph cruise on about 100HP
engine.  To get 300 kph, the smallest engines you'll find doing it
are in the 230HP to 250HP range.  Typical (TL7, granted) designs run
up into the 400HP range to get this kind of speed.  Drink a lot of
gasoline, too.  I suspect it has to do with where the knee of the
curve is for resistince in air that is about the same density as
earth's.

Oh -- drag coefficient for a TL8 airfram is typically in the area of
0.02 or so.  A raw human body is in the area of 0.4.  Nasty stuff for
both speeds we're discussing.



Third:  Orbital Lasers and Executive Action

Scott says:
:Well, when you have a camera in orbit capable of resolving 10cm
:objects on the surface, it's easy enough to correct fire.

Getting this resolution would be a nighmare, Scott, if you're actually
in orbit.  Theoretical resolution limits at your chosen wavelength.
You'd have to set up a synthetic aperture arrangement with three
(well two, but three would be better) or more ships.  What DOD
stellites do is dip into the atmosphere close to the target, get
higher later.  I *think* it's on the order of 1/2pi*w where w is
wavelength.

As for atmospheric scattering, see "Rayleigh Criterion".  It's on
the order of 1/w^4, where w is wavelength.  X-rays won't cut it.
microwave or infrared is the best way to go.

Also, check into adaptive and active optics.  Dynamically playing
with the shapes of mirrors to counteract atmopheric problems.

Gotta run.
- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4485
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 10:50 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: More fun with Terminal Velocity

Well,

Having made quite a few craft designs, and then looking at the
problem of grav belts from that perspective, I'd have to guess
that the 300kph limit for speed has more to do with the drag
and structural integrety than the max force of output of the
belt.

MegaTrav puts an upperlimit of 300kph on all craft that are
considered 'unstreamlined'.  A streamlined craft has an upper
limit of 1000kph, and an airframe craft has an upper limit of
4200kph (or 5000 in COACC).  That is my opinion on why the
limit is set where it is.  However, we have seen from the
high altitude parachute jump that higher speeds are possible.
(In a thinner atmosphere).  This is the source of my confusion.

However, Grav belts are probably not designed to be a FAST mode
of transportation.  It is much cheaper to design a grav vehicle
that is faster than a grav belt.  So, for the most part the
belt will be operating at lower altitudes where 300 kph is
indeed reasonable.

Mark pointed out the problems of windburn and the difficulty in
breathing.  Well, IMO, anyone who is out there trying to travel
at the speeds we're talking about is gonna be in some sort of
protective clothing, like a biker.  A helmet will certainly be
needed.  I would imagine that a helmet would provide enough of
a windbreak that breathing would be normal.  Witness the formula
1 racers at the Indy 500.  Cars there are open topped and travel
at 200mph (320kph) and the driver has no special breathing gear.
Admittedly, he's got a small windshield as a windbreak, but I
still think the helmet would prove effective.  And if helmet
configurations that you and I are familiar with wouldn't do the
job, a helmet could be designed for the purpose.  After all,
there just isn't a market for grav belt helmets here on Earth is
there?  :-)

Scott "2G" Kellogg

------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4486
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 12:10:41 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Wildstar answers some questions

A bunch of bulk answers to questions that were posted during the last
week or so of TML:

>From Andrew H. Bond:
>        I am new to TML, has this subject been broached before,
> if so why are vehicles still being designed with grossly
> inadequate power supplies?
Most of the published vehicle designs (especially those from GDW) are grossly
in error, incorrect, or simply terribly inefficient.  The ones in the
Imperial Encyclopedia and Fighting Ships are some of the worst offenders.
Check out the TML vehicle design archives, and you will find a number much
more suitable ships.  Or design your own.  If you find any errors in my
designs, let me know, and I'll explain myself or post a corrected design.


>From Adam Rios:
> I just bought the Traveller 2300AD game for a song and am new to the
> list and Traveller 2300AD game.  I was hoping someone out there could
> inform me where to get the most info on this game at the various ftp
> sites and how would I know if its for the Traveller 2300AD game.  I
> also am new to this computer e-mail thiong and hope that there is
> someone out there who also plays Traveller 2300AD to kinda converse
> with me on the rules 'cause I am no mathemitician and frankly the
> combat and world generation stuff reads rough for a non-scientific
> type trying to enjoy a scientific/space genre.  Two more questions
> (please dont think me stupid but)
No such thing as a stupid question.  Traveller:2300 was revised to become
2300AD; and is still in print.  I don't know many people who play it, but it
does have a following.  Check out a recent issue of Challenge; there is at
least one 2300AD fanzine available; this would be a good source of new ideas,
adventures, and vehicles for you.
>
> 1: What exactly does au meen?
AU is the Astronomic Unit, the mean distance from the Earth to the Sun.
This is a convenient yardstick for measuring things that are much too
large to be measured in meters, and much too small to be measured in
light-years.
>
> 2: What are some of you seasoned players opinions on Traveller 2300AD?
I thought it was an interesting concept, and had potential.  Unfortunately, I
can't afford the time, energy, or money to "follow" two major game systems at
once, so I pay less attention to 2300AD than to Traveller/MegaTraveller.
Part of the reason is that I bought Traveller:2300 hoping that it would be a
Traveller-compatible game (about the early Terran Confederation and the Rule
of Man), the dissapointment helped to sour me on the game.  I never felt like
buying it a second time to get the updated rules when it became 2300AD.  I
got Star Cruiser (2300AD ship-to-ship combat and ship construction rules),
but that was about it.  At least at my local game stores, much 2300AD stuff
(suppliments and adventures) are still available.


>From John Driver:
> How does a character gain an AT in a skill that he already has through
> experience only?
>        Later on the page, under Gaining The Skill, it mentions the
> procedure for a character to improve the skill once he has the AT in it.
> It also says that if the character already has that skill, success
> increases the skill one level.  But, how does that character gain the AT
> in this skill he already has?  Does he observe someone with the same
> skill but at a higher level than himself?  Or is the observation/tryout
> stuff just skipped?  The rules don't say, and this has befuddled us as
> to what the correct procedure is.  Someone please enlighten us.
Well, it really *IS* in the book, but not where you are looking.  I don't
have my books with me now (I'm at work), but it is there.  You are looking at
the rules for learning a new skill; there are also rules for character
advancement elsewhere in the book.  The following is from memory, so someone
correct me if I'm wrong: At the end of each gaming session, the Referee
awards ATs to the players.  The Ref may specify which skill the AT is to be
used on ("That was some great role-playing you did in the bar scene, so take
an AT on your Carousing skill", or "You did a lot of tricky flying today, so
take an AT in Pilot").  Or, the Ref may allow the player to choose any skill
that was used during the session (as in "Mission Accomplished; everybody take
an AT").

Personally, I award one AT to each player at the end of each session; and
another AT each session to one player for "best role-playing" (as determined
by the players, I break ties as needed), also each session.  These ATs may be
applied to any skill of the player's choice, except that it must be a skill
that the player used at least once during the session.  I also award one AT,
my choice of skill, to each player at the end of each "adventure" or other
logical break in the action.  Thus, players get one (sometimes two) ATs per
session, plus one AT per "adventure" played. This means that players who show
up regularly and contribute get rewarded.


>From Catie Helm
> So here's a question for all you fleet tactics types (of which I'm not).  If
> you had your choice of two squadrons to try to combat the vargr corsairs
> moving into the Domain of Deneb, what sort of squadrons would you pick and
> why?
> It's safe to assume that the vargr ship profiles listed in the rebellion
> book are typical of what the Navy types in this little fleet would be up
> against (well, that's what my friendly local GM is taking as a default for
> corsair fleets).
> It looks like my character is going to get a choice of anything, so long as
> it doesn't exceed two squadrons worth of ships.  I'm open to what all you
> ship tactics experts think. Really, indulge yourselves.  I'm literally all
> ears here.
Sounds good to me.  I'd take a squadron of my "Frigate" designs, and a
squadron of assault ships (pick from Scott Kellogg and Robert Dean designs).
The frigates designs were posted to the list a number of months ago, and
should be in the archives somewhere (if not, mail me and I'll send them to
you).

The frigates were specifically designed to be able to outfight anything they
couldn't outrun (does maneuver-6, agility-6, computer-9, spinal meson gun,
and a full set of screens sound?).  A squadron of these, with escorts (I
posted an escort design with them) and supply ships should do quite well
agains any design GDW has published.  There are only two drawbacks to the
design: one is that they have relatively low jump performance, and the other
is that the amount of sustained combat they can put up is limited by
available fuel (I use combat booster power plants to acheieve the required
performance, and the booster fuel is limited to a few days).  The frigates
should be able to handle anything the Vargr can throw at them in the way of
fleet action with minimal losses.  The use of booster power plants for combat
*IS* official, as per a MegaTraveller Q&A column of quite a while ago.

Presumably you would also want a squadron of assualt craft (assault carriers,
troopships, and landing craft), so that you can capture and hold planets,
bases, and the like.  Check the design archives for suitable ships; I haven't
designed any.  If the carriers also had attack fighters, they can defend
themselves and the rest of the squadron (Scott Kellogg has a COACC design
which should make mincemeat of just about any threat; however, it is not
quite an official design).

A frigate squadron (frigron?) would be 4 to 6 frigates, with 6 to 8 escorts
of mixed types (destroyers, destroyer-escorts, and fleet escorts).  Choose
escorts whose characteristics match the frigates (maneuver and agility are
important here).  Enough tankers should be attached to be able to jump once
and then refuel the frigates and escorts for another jump.  Supply ships (or
use dromedaries instead of tankers) should also be attached for long
missions.  Remember that the frigates advantages include high maneuver speed;
keep the tankers and supply ships out of the fight (leaving them in a
location in deep space is good) so that the frigates don't loose the ability
to break off by accelleration (their short jump performance and limited fuel
supply limits their ability to break off by jumping; however, with careful
fuel management, it is possible).  Another good trick is to carry plenty of
drop tanks with the supplies, so that the frigates can perform a maximum
jump, and arrive with a full load of fuel.

The assault squadron (I won't touch the contraction, sorry) would be 3 to 5
carriers and a like number of troopships, with 6 to 8 escorts.  Again the
escorts performance should match or exceed the other ships in the squadron.

Finally, the vargr are probably the second most over-rated non-problem to the
Domain; an organized, concerted effort should cut through the vargr like a
hot knife through butter.  Also remember that vargr psychology will tend to
produce up-and-coming officers who don't mind slitting their captain's throat
and joining the other side as soon as it looks like the other side is going
to win.  This does not apply as much to vargr fighting humans, but it has
been known to happen.  Just remember that you are dealing with vargr, and
appeal to their primary motivations.

In case you are wondering, the most over-rated non-problem to the Domain is
the Aslan.  The aslan males want land; the aslan females want someone to
trade with.  Taking worlds by force will not solve the problem (it will make
holding on to the land a constant struggle, and will tend to make potential
trading partners into enemies).  Aslan settlers want worlds where they will
be able to live in relative peace and prosperity.  No matter where they
settle, the will improve the economy of the domain.  The only problem remains
to figure out where to put them, and how to convince them to go there.  There
are plenty of depopulated worlds in the domain, either because they are
underdeveloped, or because they have suffered at the hands of the vargr.

The vargr want plunder and glory, not land or trade.  As the areas they have
conquered become poorer, and as infighting splits the corsairs apart, they
are less and less likely to hold on to what they have captured.  The thing to
do is to offer the aslan large areas of land on vargr-occupied worlds, IF the
aslan will evict the vargr.  Add some trade concessions and military support
(to sweeten the deal for the aslan females and males, respectively) and the
aslan should go for it (think about it: settle here and we will help you and
trade with you, or settle anywhere else and we will fight you).  Just
remember that you are dealing with aslan, and appeal to their primary
motivations.


>From Dale Poole:
> Supplement 9: Fighting Ships
>         According to the introduction, most of the ships in this book
>         were designed using Book 5 'High Guard'.  I have never seen
>         High Guard, and so, the High Guard stats are meaningless to me.
>         Is this book still useful for someone struggling to learn
>         Classic Trav?
Recommendation 1: Get High Guard.
Commentary: I believe that an explanation of the High Guard data format
appears at the end (beginning?) of the book.  Suffice it to say that the
numbers are performance stats for the ship and its weapons.  As far as
a role-playing suppliment goes, Fighting Ships is "deep background" unless
you are playing a Navy campaign (in which case Book 5, High Guard, is a
necessity), player characters will only have passing encounters with most
of the ships shown in the book.  You can use these ships as "throw-away"
descriptions, or as obstacles, or as backgrounds.
>
> Double Adventure 6: Night of Conquest/Divine Intervention
>         Has anyone played either of these?  What are they like?
>         Challenging, easy, suitable or not for beginners?
I have inflicted "Divine Intervention" on a group of player characters.  The
adventure is a neat idea, and the difficulty level depends more on the
referee than anything else.  I tend to ad-lib quite a lot around the central
theme of the adventure, and so introduce or brush aside obstacles so that the
players are challenged but not overwhelmed.  Maybe suitable for beginners,
depending on their age, experience with other games, and other intangibles.
>
> Fasa's Rescue on Galatea
>         Same questions as for Dble Advent 6
I don't know; I don't have this one.
>
> MegaTraveller Starship Operator's Manual, Vol. 1
>         Because the list has expressed so much grief over ship design
>         in MegaTrav, I wonder if this book is useful for anything?
>         Is there erata available for it?  Was there ever a Vol.2, and
>         how necessary is it, to complete Vol. 1?
There are no errata available, and there is no volume two (at one time there
were plans for a volume two, but DGP is undergoing some strangeness at
present).  The volume is complete as it stands.  The book is background
material and technical fluff, and could apply to Classic Traveller just as
well as to MegaTraveller.  The majority of the text is techno-babble about
fictious starship systems, and can be read by the players as well as the
referee.  It should give everyone lots of ideas about ways to abuse the
technology.  I like it, but the book is fundamentally irrellevant.
>
> DGP's Grand Census
>         I have yet to finish reading this one.  Seems to be pretty light
>         and inconsequential stuff.  Is this book strictly for the
>         'Let's invent some new aliens' crowd?
Grand Census (together with Grand Survey) provide some ideas for detailing
worlds and the races that inhabit them.  If you need some ideas for working
up a very complete world description, the book is quite good.  I personally
consider Grand Census to be less fluff than the Starship Operator's Manual.
If you can make reams and reams of this stuff up out of your head, then you
don't need the book.  I can't, so I find the tables usefull for generating
races and societies.  The MegaTraveller World Builder's Handbook is the
combined MegaTraveller equivalent of Grand Survey and Grand Census.
>
> And finally, something from 'Seeker', called Merchant Class Ships, Vol. 1.
>         The booklet says for use with Space Opera, but on some promo literature
>         inside, it says also for use with Traveller.  However, no Trav stats
>         are given for the ships.
>         It would probably be a straight forward enough conversion, as there
>         are floorplans for three ship designs; the Banner Class, Voyager Class,
>         and the Zephyr Class.
>         Has anyone used 'Seeker' products before?
Nope.  I prefer to do my own ship designs and deckplans.


wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                             in the Far Future

------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4487
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 09:48 MST
From: PPUGLIESE@PimaCC.Pima.edu
Subject: X-ray transperancy

Regarding the ability of the atmosphere to block X-rays;

I seem to remember from some classes I took a while back that it
was the earth's electromagnetic field that blocked the gamma rays
(so-called 'hard' X-rays) that come from the sun. I recall some-
thing about how the earth periodically 'flips' the poles on it's
magnetic field resulting in a temporary loss of protection. A num-
ber of scientists have circulated some interesting speculations on
the effects of such an event upon the biosphere. I also remember
the planetary scientists were disappointed when it turned out that
Mars had no significant magnetic field. They seemed to feel that
w/o such a field the development of life would be greatly hindered,
if not impossible. Of course, I may not be recollecting accurately,
you know how undergrad courses are! ;*)

PHIL

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu


------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4488
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (metlay)
Subject: X rays and so on
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 12:56:37 EDT

Scott Kellogg sez:
>However, Traveller TL 13+ lasers are X-rays.  I do not know
>exactly how transparent the atmosphere is in that range, but I
>would say that if the human body is transparent to X-rays, the
>atmosphere dang well outta be too.  Thus, much less energy will
>be lost to the atmosphere than in IR to UV lasers.  Less energy
>loss, the less the atmosphere will heat, therefore less beam
>diffraction.

Nope, bad analogy, bro'. The atmospheric rolloff is on both sides
of the visible range, and is orders of magnitude down from its
maximum by the time you get through the ultraviolet. They call it
the "optical window" for a reason, and they have to launch X-ray
and gamma observatories on orbiting satellites for the same reason.

>Also, when we are dealing with beams of ***250 MEGAwatts*** I
>still think yer gonna give somebody an AWFUL sunburn...  Even
>*with* Sunblock 50 million!  :-)  Heck!  Even the beam scattering
>from a 250MW laser on the ground is gonna be lethal.  Think about
>it:  A 250MW laser would *REALLY* light up a room...  You wear
>goggles to protect your eyes from lasers of less than half a
>watt.  And a 0.095milliwatt laser can damage your eye if you
>stare at it.  You miss by a few meters and nobody will notice.

Nope again. You get a lot of burnoff from laser beams going through
crud like air and so on, and the release of heat on impact is ordinary
incoherent scattered light. You wear goggles to prevent accidental
coherent light impact, not scatter (although laser speckle can do
interesting things to your retinas if you stare at it for a long time).
The inverse-square law for a point source of 250MW of heat energy can
be worked out; you get a surprisingly small danger space in terms of
watts per square meter.

I would say that orbital lasers are most handy when you're dealing with
very thin or trace atmospheres, which are common in the Imperium. Above
"thin," though, you can forget it.

REFERENCE: J.D.Jackson's "Classical Electrodynamics," the book that
turns most young people off of grad school in physics.

In all fairness, when Mark Cook sez:
>consider how much X-ray energy the sun generates.  We'd all be toast!),

He is also incorrect. The Sun is not a very efficient X-ray emitter;
its radiation curve peaks in the visible range. You want X-rays, you
need an O or B star, or a large A star. By the time you get down to the
F and G stars, you're peaking in the UV, visible, and IR ranges.

Mark Also sez:
>I am *green* with envy.  I'd kill small populations in exchange for a
>chance to chat with Clancy.  (Well, OK.  Not much of a sacrifice.  Some
>folks who know me suggest that I'd kill small populations just to relieve
>boredom. :^) )

I am utterly silent on this matter. Nope. Not a word. Nope.
|->

- --
mike metlay    (phud, no less)
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4489
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 13:37:03 EDT
From: Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: AT`s (A 2letter word with a in it!)


With regards to AT's in traveller. Yes I believe that you are doing the
no skill correctly. At least I do it the following way:

Difficult uncertain (Skill [of Instructer], Int) to get a temporary
level-0 in the skill. If the character succeeds in the skill in a
non-trivial manner, then they can get an AT for the skill. (Note that
I don't allow people to keep the temporary level-0 until the next use
if that happens to be more than several weeks/months away.)

As for granting of AT's. (Without reading the rules) I usually give out
one AT per session, the character can choose, subject to my approval,
some skill that they used succesfully and enhanced the good of the
group. (Remeber that the AT's have to be dated, as one can only get
2 AT's for a particular skill per game-year).
At the beginning of every game session I allow the players to make
one attempt to develop a level in a skill. (Difficult AT, int I believe).

As a non-standard rule I also allow characters to develop stats in
a similar way. i.e. get AT's towards improving a stat, however I make them
decide that they want to try to improve a specific stat at the beginning
of the session, if they don't get an oppurtuninty to use the stat
constructively, then they don't get an AT for that session. I have
also toyed with making it harder to get higher stats, ie a stat of
1-4 requires 1 success to raise 5-9, 2 successes, 10-14 3 successes.

Now as AT is a two letter word with a in it....

> Date:    Mon, 20 Jul 92 10:12 EDT
> From: PHB100@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
> Subject: (4470) asl;dfj
>
> >
> >Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
> >Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
> >University of Queensland        |
> >Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
> >                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?
> >
> 41?  In English?  or in all languages?  How about a list?
>
> P.B.

I tried this quickly on my system:

prism:Unbeliever cat /usr/dict/words | awk 'length < 3' | grep "[Aa]" | wc -l
      24
and this is generous as state abbrev. are there (e.g. AZ, VA).

				-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)

------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4490
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1992 14:55 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Transonic drag

Hey folks,

Just a few notes on transonic drag.

The phenomena of a sonic boom (and supersonic drag) is similar to
that of a wake of a ship.

The ship is travelling faster than the speed of waves on the surface of
the water.  As the ship moves along, a shockwave forms.  The wake trails
out from the bow of the ship and as the wake travels past an observer,
that observer would 'hear' the wake.  (detect the waves as they pass by)

Now, as you may notice, the water behind a ship, inside the barriers of
the wake, is much less turbulent than either the wake itself or the water
around it.  Supersonic and hypersonic airframes take advantage of this by
projecting a nose cone of the aircraft forward.  The 'wake' or shockwave
forms (a cone in this 3D case) around the nose while the rest of the
aircraft falls inside the cone of the shockwave.  Thus the wings and tail
are *NOT* subjected to supersonic airflow even when the aircraft is
travelling supersonic.

The transonic drag that forms as one hits Mach 1 is felt as the plane goes
into transition from normal airflow (where air flows over each part of the
craft) to the shockwave airflow.  You can imagine each part of an aircraft
forming its own shockwave thus making for very turbulent air.  Once the
speed of sound is exceeded, there is only the one shockwave.

Transonic drag is MUCH heavier than supersonic drag.  This is why some
aircraft require afterburners to go hit the speed of sound, yet cruise
supersonic without the burners.

Hope this makes sence,

Scott 2G Kellogg
God!  It's hard to describe without diagrams!

------------------------------

Bundle: 374
Archive-Message-Number: 4491
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Re: Transonic drag
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 92 13:05:47 PDT

Scott sez:

> Now, as you may notice, the water behind a ship, inside the barriers of
> the wake, is much less turbulent than either the wake itself or the water
> around it.

Boy, ain't *that* the truth.  This is the reason I love to follow the
Coast Guard cutter with my Zodiac (well, Sillinger actually, but nobody
recognizes that brandname) when I go out over the bar to go SCUBA diving.

> God!  It's hard to describe without diagrams!

I dunno.  I thought you did a pretty darn good job! :^)

	- Mark

------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
 375  4492 22-Jul-1992 bryan borich     WeT Navy << Item    0931032
 375  4493 22-Jul-1992 Leonard Erickso  Low tech surprise! << I was talking wit
 375  4494 22-Jul-1992 James T Perkins  new address and phone number << Hi, I'l
 375  4495 22-Jul-1992 TML Administrat  *** READ AT ONCE! TML MOVES TO UWO! ***
 375  4496 22-Jul-1992 Cynthia Higginb  Norway, and Topas(?) <<  "Downbelow Sta
 375  4497 22-Jul-1992 Richard Johnson  Trans-[sonic|aqua] drag << Scott Kellog
 375  4498 23-Jul-1992 Adrian Hurt      Re: low-tech anti-matter << Leonard Eri
 375  4499 20-Jul-1992 C. Harald Koch   2300AD Vehicle Combat Questions << 2300
 375  4500 23-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4 Part
 375  4501 24-Jul-1992 Tab A. Stephens  Megatrav/other items for sale << Howdy,
 375  4502 24-Jul-1992 Hans Rancke-Mad  Anti-matter in the Imperium << Adrian H


------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4492
Date: 22 Jul 92 00:11:41 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: WeT Navy

Item    0931032                 92/07/20        22:31
From:   T.MCINNES2                      Terrence R. Mcinnes
To:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
Sub: TML mail edited
Reply:  Item #4435772 from B.BORICH     on 92/07/20 at 03:53

Brian,

You may want to pass this on to your TML friends--

They are right about power being the function of a cube root
rather than a square root, something I discovered after
type was set and couldn't do anything about it.

My friend and Royal Navy naval architect Stuart Machin called
my attention to this and also worked out corrected hull resistance
factors that would work properly with a cube root equation.

These will appear if and when a Wet Navy book (or combined
COACC/Wet Navy book) appears as an expansion of the new
TNE rules set.

Meanwhile, the square root formula, while not being totally
realistic, is easy to use as part of a wet ship design
system which yields usable results in game terms.

Best Regards,

Terry
=END=

------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4493
Date: 22 Jul 92 10:32:13 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Low tech surprise!

I was talking with a friend the other day, annd we got to discussing
some of the "odder" things that can be stolen from older SF and
incorporated into Traveller.

We came up with one that looks like it could be *real* nasty, but I'd
like to bounce it off the ship design folks.

Jack Williamson had a couple of Novels in the 50s set in a version of
the solar system that was a bit improbable then and *totally* impossible
now. But a similar solar system *could exist in this galaxy (it'd just
be *very* unlikely).

Specificly, this system had suffered from an encounter with an
extra-galactic rogue planet. Both it and one of the systems planet
interacted and the result was a large asteriod belt.

I hear you saying "So what?". Well, there's one *teensy* detail... the
rogue planet was antimatter. This means that a rather low tech level
culture could have antimatter powerplants *and* warheads...

Picture the poor unsuspecting Imperial scouts encountering *that*
contradicttion. (Tech level 10 ships with antimatter power! <shudder>)

Anybody think it's worth fudging up some designs for?




------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4494
Subject: new address and phone number
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:10:33 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>

Hi, I'll be leaving Tektronix Friday, but for those of you interested in
finding me at my new home and job, I will be moving Sunday, July 26th
to:

	James & Glennis Perkins
	3088 W 15th #12
	Eugene, OR 97402
	Home: (503)686-2959

My new employment with Spectra-Physics will begin Monday, August 3rd,
after which I can be reached at:

	EMail: jamesp@sp-eug.com
	Work: (503)683-5700

In fact, the e-mail is working now (it's currently forwarding mail to me
here at Tek) and I think it will be arranged so it will queue mail for
me at Spectra-Physics during the hiatus between jobs.

Thanks again to all of those I've enjoyed working with at Tektronix. The
engineers are competent and friendly, and future success for Tektronix
is waiting for you to grab it!

If anyone finds themselves in Eugene with a few minutes to spare, give
me a call and we can talk over a soda.

Leaving in person but not in spirit,

James Perkins


------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4495
To: traveller
Subject: *** READ AT ONCE! TML MOVES TO UWO! ***
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@metolius.WR.TEK.COM>
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 13:20:52 PDT


Hello TMLers,

The TML is making a big shift TONIGHT. I have completely rewritten the
TML digester software to be more portable. I have moved the TML
addresses lock, stock, and barrel to engrg.uwo.ca, under Dan Corrin's
systems where the TML ftp site is also located.

The reason for this drastic move is that I have quit my position at
Tektronix in Beaverton, Oregon, for a new job at Spectra-Physics 170 km
South at the other end of Oregon's scenic Willamette Valley, in Eugene,
Oregon. Naturally, I will need to vacate the corporate computing
resources that Tek has so generously made available to house the
Traveller Mailing List.

My new email address for personal mail will be: jamesp@sp-eug.com. This
address is already working, and until my termination date at Tektronix,
which is Friday, July 24, 1992, will forward mail to me here.

Although the TML has moved, I will continue to manage additions and
deletions of TML members, via remote control e-mail from Eugene.

PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THE FOLLOWING CHANGES:

	o email TML submissions to the new submission address:

		traveller@engrg.uwo.ca

	o email TML questions and administrative notes to the new
	  request address:

		traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

	o when you send mail to the submission address, you will be
	  immediately notified by email that the message has been
	  accepted (new feature!).
	o the bundle subsciption service is going away -- I didn't have
	  time to reinstrument it at UWO.  All bundle subscribers will
	  start recieving the biweekly digests instead.
	o the table of contents that appears at the beginning of each
	  digest will be more comprehensive, showing archive message
	  number, archive bundle i.d., date, sender, and subject,
	  instead of just AMN and subject.

Thanks for your support!

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca


------------------------------
Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4496
Date: 22 Jul 92 19:19:18 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@compuserve.com>
Subject: Norway, and Topas(?)


	"Downbelow Station"?  Sounds like I'll have to read it sometime.
My "Norway" got it's name out of an Atlas, because the "Sweden" brought
to mind the Swedish Chef...
	And I don't have the foggiest idea which TML post it was.  I don't
keep track, I just cut the ships free, and put them in the database.

	And if you are interested in playing Topas, do drop me a line.  You
may have twenty TL12 ships available, since the latest conqueror of
Topas is planning on donating them to Topas System Squadron (complete
with advisors to help run them).  There are presently two "governments
in exile", plus one "puppet government" (these designations come from
various players' descriptions - they may or may not be valid), so you
can play any one of them.  The "puppet government" has the TL12 ships,
the "governments in exile" have Topas original TL10-11 ships split
between them.  I don't know what there will be to do as Topas, but with
everyone trying to raise Topas TL, you might come out pretty good.


------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4497
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Trans-[sonic|aqua] drag
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 5:56:13 PDT

Scott Kellog:
> [describes big wave off bow (or stern) of a ship]
> Now, as you may notice, the water behind a ship, inside the barriers of
> the wake, is much less turbulent than either the wake itself or the water
> around it.

And Mark Cook:
:Boy, ain't *that* the truth.  This is the reason I love to follow the
:Coast Guard cutter ....

I thought you were still mad at the coasties for that one night back in
'78... :=)

Ahem.
Wellllll, actually there is a difference between this wave and a shock
wave generated by an aircraft.  The angle between the wave fronts in water
will *always* be  48 degrees.  No matter how fast the boat moves.  Watch
sometime.   The angle between the wave fronts for a plane in the air
changes.  It gets smaller (the wave fronts move together) as the plane
flies faster.

Yes, the plane flies in the relatively undisturbed air behind the shock
front, but that's because if the control surfaces entered it, the plane
would be uncontrollable.

I think the reason this happens on the water is surface tension.  A
classic example of second order effects have a major impact on first
order effects.

:> God!  It's hard to describe without diagrams!
:I dunno.  I thought you did a pretty darn good job! :^)

Seems like "God!" ought to be pretty hard to describe WITH diagrams. :=)

- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4498
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: low-tech anti-matter
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 9:25:39 BST

Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM> writes:

<about a star system that had collided with another star system and
produced a planetoid belt.>

> I hear you saying "So what?". Well, there's one *teensy* detail... the
> rogue planet was antimatter. This means that a rather low tech level
> culture could have antimatter powerplants *and* warheads...
>
> Picture the poor unsuspecting Imperial scouts encountering *that*
> contradicttion. (Tech level 10 ships with antimatter power! <shudder>)

And now you know why the Shionthy system is a Red Zone.  According to
Adventure 1, Kinunir, that system is a planetoid belt with chunks of
anti-matter floating around.

What this means is that either the Imperials have already used the
stuff (TL 15 ships with anti-matter power - not quite such a big
shudder :-) or that there is some basic reason why they could or
would not do so, such as the ship blowing up.  If the Imperials can't
build anti-matter powerplants at TL 15, neither can those TL 10 people.
Or indeed, the TL 8 residents of the Shionthy system.

Anyone want to design some TL 8 ships with anti-matter power? :-)

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian     |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4499
From: chk@alias.com (C. Harald Koch)
Subject: 2300AD Vehicle Combat Questions
Date: 	Mon, 20 Jul 1992 11:17:46 -0400

2300AD has no rules for evaluating complex combat between vehicles and
people, and even between vehicles. Currently, it's just as easy to fire at
or from a stationary, moving, and evading vehicle.

All vehicles have an evasion rating, desgined for use against incoming
missles (and only that *sigh). The rule for resolving this is: Subtract the
evasion number from the missile's homing value, and roll that number or less
on a D10 (10 always fails). However, there's no rule to evaluate aimed fire
at an evading vehicle, and the evasion ratings don't easily translate to
character skill modifiers.

Second, there's no rules for modifying fire from a moving or evading
vehicle. Currently we've decided that you can only conduct area fire, and
you must make a difficult skill roll to maintain your balance (a Control
roll) followed by a difficult skill roll to keep your weapon tracking the
correct location. This seems somewhat artificial to us.

Even the vehicle <-> vehicle rules suffer from this problem; two wildly
evading vehicles can still shoot at each other as though they were
stationary. This is just a little unrealistic.

So my questions are:

a) how does this happen in reality (really a question for sci.military, but
   I don't get that group here).

b) has anyone come up with (well balanced) rules for resolving these
   problems? How does the new Twilight 2000 (the successor of 2300AD's task
   system) handle this?

Thanks,

- --
"If looks could kill, I     | C. Harald Koch  Alias Research, Inc. Toronto, ON
would have to make a saving | chk@alias.com                (work-related mail)
throw!"                     | chk@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca     (permanent address)
     -Gerry Smit, 19-May-92 | VE3TLA@VE3OY.#SCON.ON.CA.NA            (AMPRNet)

------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4500
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:29 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4 Part 4)

     DOWN THE WELLES
          or
     Deep in a Hole
          - XXVII -
     "Picking up radiation." observed Jietlshaiepr.  "Dangerous
in long exposure, no more than fifteen minutes outside...
Picking up something in the water... small, distorted, but it's
there...  coming in visual range."
     The downed SDB was barely afloat.  Only the bridge remained
above water with its wind screen blown out by explosive bolts.
The hull was scarred and burned by nuclear fire.  The plates bent
and cracked from the crash impact.
     "There 'e is!" called Jones.  A limp figure in a rubber raft
drifted a hundred meters from the wrecked ship.
     Vole's voice came over the suit radio in Zhodani, "I read
him out as semiconscious.  There is another life source inside
the ship:  roughly I'd say in the engine room.  Condition
unconscious, but definitely alive."
     Jietlshaiepr thought aloud, "Shtam, set us down.  Gresha,
you grab the one in the raft.  It's too risky to board that
thing, but..."
     Gresha climbed into the airlock as Jietlshaiepr began to
concentrate on psionically feeling her way into the ship.  The
ship shuddered slightly as the Gig plowed along the surface.
Gresha tumbled outside and into the water.  She sank quickly
under the weight of her battle dress before rising free on her
grav belt.  She skimmed the waves to the drifting raft.
     It was a five person raft bobbing about like a cork with
it's only occupant.  He was sprawled face down in the center of
the raft wearing a vac suit.  The helmet lay nearby with a
shattered face plate.  The floor of the raft was rolling with
vomit.
     "Srrishe, furr sorze gorrar!" translates directly as 'Vile,
personal finger noise.', and idiomatically as 'Bleech!'  Gresha
Dipped the pirate in the ocean before she pulled him aloft.
     "'ey, Should we bother wi' the other?" wondered Jones.  "We
got one, mate?"
     "Quiet!" barked Jietlshaiepr.  She stared into the wreck
with her eyes closed.  Seconds later, she vanished into the
proverbial thin air.
     Smith and Jones exchanged glances.  Waves beat over the
rolling, half submerged SDB threatening to send it to the bottom
as they washed close to the missing windscreen.
     Jietlshaiepr appeared standing on the ships hull as it
rolled.  She was lugging a limp figure in a vac suit.  She lifted
it in her arms carefully and took off with her grav belt.
Slowly, she moved up and into the Gig's airlock.
     "This one's in pretty bad shape." she called.  "Even with
better attention than we can give I don't think she'd recover
consciousness."
     Smith and Jones examined the one Gresha had brought in.
"This one's pretty bad," commented Smith, "We need to get 'im
cleaned off and on intravenous.  Radiation, exposure, shock,
second degree burns on the face, we have to get 'im out o' this
suit:  it's radioactive."
     Jietlshaiepr grabbed a pair of pliers, "First thing's
first."  She pushed Jones aside and grabbed the pirates head.
She deftly forced his mouth open against his will and quickly
looked inside.  She found what she was looking for quickly and
grabbed with the pliers.
     A bloody tooth came out.  The pirate screamed and passed
out.
     "Wha..." began Jones, then comprehending, "Ahh... Suicide
capsule.  Quick thinking."
     Jietlshaiepr removed the other prisoner's tooth more gently.
"I think this one's about had it.  Radiation, internal injuries,
shock..."
          - XXVIII -
     The Gig raced back towards the continent.
     Corporal Delt the radioed her report, "I got Turner, she's
O.K." pause, "Spacehand Apprentice Coleman is dead:  Suit burned
through in re-entry.  I'll rendezvous with Lt. Dragoon in
seventeen minutes."
     "What's our ETA?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     "Sixteen minutes." read Shtam.
     "And the two G-carriers should be right about on top of her
by now." thought Smith.
          - XXIX -
     Dragoon watched from cover with the guard robot.  The two
G-carriers circled around looking at the wilted parachute from
her re-entry kit with their laser turrets spinning around like
great white, one eyed hawks.
     One hawk dropped down for a closer look.  It hovered a few
seconds a meter above the ground and then set down.  Quickly, the
rear hatch opened and the hawk's brood jumped out:  a fire team
of four armed with advanced combat rifles.
     Dragoon raised her laser rifle to the ready.
     The leader started to motion the team to fan out when his
black combat environment suit flared red over the left breast and
burst into flame.  He clutched at his chest and went down.
     A burst of gauss rifle fire from the guard robot sprayed the
team as it glanced around in confusion.  Two more fell with
bloodied suits.  The fourth, wounded, still managed to stand and
fire a burst in the air before being cut down by Dragoon's laser.
     Dragoon burst from cover and ran for the hatch screaming.
     The robot flew directly for the second G-carrier and grabbed
its under carriage.
     Bursts of rifle fire rang from inside the first G-carrier
followed by the sizzle of a laser.
     The guard robot began ripping away the hull of the G-carrier.
The metal bent easily under its huge strength.  A moment later it
exposed a grav module and sent a burst of gauss rifle fire into the
works.  It sputtered and shorted briefly.  The G-carrier took on a
list.
     A sizzle sounded inside the landed G-carrier.
     More metal tore away from the G-carrier a second grav module
hove into view.  The robot fired into the second module when
Dragoon sounded on its radio.  "Robot, get off that thing!"  It
dropped away from the listing G-carrier when the first G-carrier
opened fire.
     The laser lanced into the sky missing by five meters.  The
second beamed by missing by two meters.  Then, the underside of
the G-carrier exploded.  Tiny bits of fusion plant flew out from
the shattered hull.
     Without power, the G-carrier fell like a stone.  It dropped
twenty meters and smashed itself into the ground.  The fuel tanks
ruptured and hydrogen flared into the sky.  The armor caught fire
and the ship blazed like a furnace.
     A moment later, in the Gig they heard Dragoon screaming
wildly over the radio.
          - XXX -
     They found her lounging on the rear hatch of the G-carrier
with a grin on her face, laser rifle on her shoulder, smoking a
cigarette while blood streamed down her arm from a hole in her
combat armor.
     In the back ground a radio sounded, "come in... G-carrier
one come in...  Report..."
     Jones looked over the wound while Smith and Jietlshaiepr
climbed inside the G-carrier.
     "It's a standard Tarsan class G-carrier:  tech level ten,
Imperial design." commented Smith as she made her way forward.
     "No identifying marks on it... can't tell where it was
built." thought Jietlshaiepr aloud.
     "I wouldn'a expect there te be any." answered Smith, "Bu'
with the radio open we can send a distress call..."
          - XXXI -
     The ambush was quickly laid out.  Kfoks began digging out
fox holes with the tilly.  Trees were broken up to provide cover
with small fires for fake infrared traces to confuse detectors.
Shtam rigged the fusion plant of the G-carrier to detonate while
Turner set up a proximity fuse coupled with a timer.  Turner,
Dragoon and Smith hid inside to man the guns and use its radio to
jam communications.
     Shtam would be set off in the Gig a kilometer and a half
away for emergencies.
     Twenty minutes after the auto distress beacon was activated,
Jones' recon robot picked up a launch headed out from the
mercenaries island to the battle field.
          - XXXII -
     The launch came in low over the field.  A cautious vulture
with its single eye of a missile turret scanning the ground as it
circled over the bodies of the two fallen hawks.  Infrared
signals registered like a platoon down on the surface.  The
vulture hesitated at putting its tail feathers into such a nest.
     The radio sounded.  "This is launch number two, we've got a
battle field here...  No visible survivors...  Looks like enemy
forces, SDB five stand by to give us a laser barrage..."
     Smith cut in the G-carrier's jammer.
     A few moments later the launch opened fire on the largest
fake emplacement.
     Dirt and rocks leaped skyward and rained down on the
concealed ambushers.
     Turner cut loose a blast of laser fire from the G-carriers
turret.  Three fusion guns and one plasma gun blasted away at the
launch as it nearly hovered over the scene.
     The missile turret began to swing round to bear on the
captured G-carrier.  A second pulse of the heavy laser found the
launch.
     The launch was enshrouded in flame as liquid hydrogen spewed
from a rupture in the fuel tank.
     It swerved a moment to port and brought the missile tube to
bear on the G-carrier.
     Ens. Smith appeared on the Gig in underclothes.  "Get moving!
We're in trouble!"
     Shtam glanced sidelong at Smith.  "Not only a teleport, but
a blasted cute one too..."  The Gig leapt under expert control.
     "Concentrate fire on the turret!" shouted Jietlshaiepr over
the sear of plasma bolts.
     The missile tube was suddenly enshrouded in fire as the guns
were brought to bear.
     "We can't touch it!" howled Gresha.
     Suddenly, the missile tube fired.  The nose of the warhead
came clear of the tube and jammed solid.
     The turret exploded, throwing shrapnel and flame.  The
launch canted off to port and swung away wobbling.  The Gig
blasted over the horizon blazing laser fire.
     The launch was caught in a hell of X-rays.  The drives
exploded and cut out.  It screamed into the ground and rolled
like a tin can.  It finally ground to a halt and lay on its back
in a burning mass of twisted wreckage.
     "Shtam, bring it on down!" shouted Jietlshaiepr, "TEAM!  We
are leaving!"
          - XXXIII -
     The Gig lunged toward the coast throttled back.  At
transonic speeds Shtam flew it over the trees at three hundred
meters.  Going supersonic would attract too much attention:  too
much heat, too much atmospheric disturbance.
     "If the SDBs are awake they'll spot us very soon." growled
Kfoks.  "The explosions back there must have howled to the whole
planet."
     "This one is dead." announced Vole.  He dragged the body of
the pirate that Jietlshaiepr rescued to the air lock.  Quickly,
the lock was stuffed, closed and made ready to drop the body.
     "Let's get the other strapped into one o` the low berths."
suggested Jones.  "We'll get 'im set up for interog..."
     A dull thud resounded through the hull as one point five
gigawatts of photon energy struck the ground five hundred meters
aft of the fleeing Gig.
     "They found us!" snapped Shtam.
     He sent the Gig into a flurry of twisting corkscrews.
Cushioned by the inertial compensators, everyone but Shtam got a
smooth ride.  But it's easier to maneuver when you can feel
something of what you're doing.  Shtam, however, only felt one
tenth of one G where he should have been crushed by the force of
six.
     Another thud managed to be heard through the sound proofing
of the Gig's hull and above the howl of mach point nine six.
"They're getting too close!  How far to the ocean?"
     "Five kilometers." Shtam replied mechanically, deep in
concentration as the Gig responded like a thing alive under his
fingers.  "I would advise you all... to... strap in... because we
are going to dump... HARD..."
     The passengers checked their belts.  Impact too fast and no
inertial comps in the universe would save them.
     "Ten seconds..." a third thud resounded through the hull:
nearer this time.
     Shtam whipped the Gig around and slammed the engines on full
throttle.  The Gig slowed as it fell toward the water.  In three
seconds the ship slowed from transonic speed and slammed into the
water at twenty kilometers an hour.  The hull rang with the jolt
of the sudden stop as the strain pulled on the inertial comps.
     "Dive!" shouted Jietlshaiepr.
     Shtam dove.  Their tracking systems would figure out what
had happened in a few se...
     Something let out an eerie high pitched scream.  The hull
sounded like a kettle drum for a moment as the ocean was brought
to a small boil around it.
     "Damage?" called Jietlshaiepr.
     Shtam hesitated, "Nothing I can see...  Systems check... all
green."
     "Their lasers can't get through water." explained Kfoks.
     "Yeah, we're safe, but we're stuck in the briar patch, Brer
Kfoks." sighed Jones.
          - XXXIV -
     The Gig cruised at thirty kilometers an hour along the ocean
bottom, making its way along the submarine canyons back to the
trench that hid the Flamboyant.
     "All right, everyone," sighed Jietlshaiepr, "Seeing as we
have little alternative but taking you to the Flamboyant.  I must
ask you to surrender your weapons, and the helmets to your
armor."  Carefully she examined the faces of the League of Suns
crew.  Various states of distrust on unfamiliar visages.
     "Very well," announced Jones.  He unbuckled his laser rifle
and handed it to her.  He seemed slightly startled when she held
out a hand for his folding machine gun, but he handed it over as
well.
     Slowly, the weapons were collected.  Smith handed over her
laser rifle and folding machine gun.  Delt gave up her gauss
rifle.  Walker hesitated markedly, but gave up the PGMP-12.
     Dragoon came last.  She ignored the collection until it came
to her and then her sole response was to grip the laser rifle
more tightly.
     Jietlshaiepr looked her over frostily, "Lt. Dragoon, please
surrender your rifle."
     "No."
     "I will not allow you to come within a hundred kilometers of
the ship carrying that.  You can forget commandeering our ship.
Try it and you won't get three paces."
     "Dragoon!" growled Jones.  "Hand it over."
     "Is that an order?"
     "Do I have to make it one?"
     Dragoon thought it over, angrily staring at Jones.  "Right."
she breathed, "Here."
     The rifle was half passed, half thrown.
     Jietlshaiepr caught it quickly and the two froze, staring at
each other.
     "Our soldiers do not trust each other." sighed Jones, "I would
not have it any other way."
     Jietlshaiepr stared at Dragoon, "Indeed, such things are
true of both sides."
          - XXXV -
     Once docked with the Flamboyant, sickbay was evacuated and
sealed while Jietlshaiepr teleported inside to evaluate the
vaccine.
     Jones and Smith blindfolded the prisoner and strapped him in
a low berth.  Normally used for cryogenic suspension in an
emergency, they also made good sensory deprivation chambers.
     Slowly, they let him return to consciousness.
     Jones knelt next to the berth concentrating oddly on the
instrument read out.
     "This human has to be a telepath..." breathed Kfoks.
          - XXXVI -
     "What?...  Where am I?  I was on the bridge...  We
crashed...  I've bailed out!...
     Ok...  I was in the raft when somebody picked me up...  They
took my tooth...  I've been captured...
     Thank god for training camp...  It took 'em three weeks to
break me there..."
     The prisoner's consciousness began to drop as he went
carefully and deliberately to sleep.
          - XXXVII -
     Tuerz climbed down from the airlock wearing his female costume
with his fur dyed red white and black.  He carried a black leather
case while his jeweled laser pistol hung from its holster.
     He looked at the prisoner in the low berth, "Taek!" he
grinned at Kfoks, "You've brought me a present!"
     Tuerz opened the black case to reveal a collection of
knives, brass knuckles, whips, blackjacks, and scalpels.  Antique
thumbscrews, hand cuffs, electrodes all set carefully into the
red velvet of the case.
     Lt. Jones peered into the case.  There were several wigs in
the bottom of the case.  Odd wigs...  They had skin attached...
Jones stared at the scalps.  Beautifully carved, obviously the
taker had been very, very talented and very, very patient.
Briefly he used his psionics to examine the instruments psychic
auras.  But, against the background of the scalps, the box exuded
nothing but white hot searing pain.
          - XXXVIII -
     Jietlshaiepr climbed down the hatch an hour later, hypo in
hand.  Quickly, she raised the armored flap on Shtam's battle
dress and sent the hypo home.  "It appears your vaccine works
without affecting traits that are not lethal." she commented.
"Immunization should be complete within an hour."
     "Glad to hear ya confirm it." nodded Jones.
     "How is it going with the prisoner?"
     "e's been conditioned against interrogation.  We're setting
up a few surprises fer 'im.  A combination o' sensory deprivation
an' water torture:  we'll 'ave him dosed wi' local anesthetic
'cept for certain parts of the body:  the top o' the foot, the
side o' the abdomen, the scalp, the back o' the knee...
     "We'll irritate these areas intermittently, every few
minutes while we keep 'im conscious with stimulants.  'e won't be
able te sleep.  I only 'ope 'e doesn't hove the plague, if he
does, we've got two days."
          - XXXIX -
     "...This is the house that Jack built...  This is the rat
that lived in the house that Jack built...  This is the cat that
killed the rat that lived in the house that Jack built...  This
is the dog that chased the cat that killed the rat that lived in
the house that Jack built...  This is the horse that chased the
dog that chased the cat that killed the rat that lived in the
house that Jack built....
     This is the cow that chased the horse that ate the cheese
that chased the cat that killed the dog that lived in the house
that Jack built...."
          - XL -
     "'e's been thinking 'at fer hours." yawned Smith.  The
telepathic trio of Smith, Jones and Jietlshaiepr lounged around
the berth containing their prisoner.
     "Well, let's try 'im on a different tack." sighed Jones.
     Jones stood, stretched himself and took a deep breath.  "I'm
gonna try something."
     He knelt by the head of the berth and opened the pirate's
mind.  "This is the dog that chased the cat that killed the rat
that lived on the ship that Jack built."
     The pirate considered the interjected thought for a moment.
"Ship...  Ship dip...  Ship fall down, go boom!..."
     Jones jaw dropped incredulously.
     "Ship fall down, go boom!?"
     A flash went off in the pirate's mind.  He struggled against
a tumbling ship to keep it aloft.  A spinning world flashed by as
the SDB hit the water.  Panic... explosive bolts... the dead
bridge crew...  the raft...  water....
          - XLI -
     "...Hello, Hello?  Is there anybody out there...?"
     The answer came back and buried itself in the prisoner's
thoughts "Commander."
     A vision wrenched itself into his mind.  The dead captain of
the SDB, lying on the broken bridge.  "Murdoc..." floated around
his head like a child's balloon.
     Another picture floated in:  a grey haired man in a
captain's uniform, he was standing in a briefing room with a
crowd of SDB pilots and captains.  The map on the holotank was
Welles.  The Star Rider's captain was just pointing out the
emergency rendezvous point at the L5 Lagrange point.
     A third picture came in, a fat balding man in a colonel's
uniform.  "McNamara..." imposed itself indignantly in the
pirate's mind, with a hint of sarcasm and scorn.
     "Ollie Sutherland..." came abruptly in.  The tone was one of
frank admiration.  He appeared in a major's uniform standing on
the top of a grav tank with a command pennant.  Male caucasian,
one point eight meters tall, blonde hair closely cropped, blue
eyes with a commanding presence that filled the memory of the
prisoner.
          - XLII -
     "I'm going to try something..." muttered Jietlshaiepr, and
she knelt close to the berth.
     Slowly, she called up an image in the prisoner's mind.  A
man with whitish blonde hair.  He had whitened scars on his face
and a large one encircling his neck.  He wore an old battle
jacket with patches ripped from past enemies corpses, and carried
an ancient sub machine gun.
     The pirate was confused at first, then an image came up.
The man stood on the hanger deck of the Star Rider, a Kinunir
class battle cruiser was suspended from the locks.  The name
"Roland" rolled about in the prisoner's consciousness like a ball
bearing in a funnel until it hit the spout.  "Roland...
Roland...  Roland... T...  Gunner...  Roland T. Gunner..."

------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4501
From: tab%cco.caltech.edu@CitJulie.Bitnet (Tab A. Stephens)
Date: 	Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:50:49 -0400
Subject: Megatrav/other items for sale


Howdy,

My closet is overflowing and I could use some help clearing it.
Listed below are a number of items that I could be talked into
selling.  Make an offer.

I would like to get at least half of what I put into these games, but
no reasonable offer will be refused.  You pay for shipping, but I'm
sure we can work deals for large orders.

Everything is complete and in good to excellent condition unless
otherwise noted.  Please let me know if you have any specific
questions.

Please send offers, questions and the like to:

tab@cco.caltech.edu



____________________________________________________________

**** Megatraveller stuff ****

Referee's Companion
Rebellion Sourcebook
COACC
Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium
Knightfall
Hardtimes
101 Vehicles
World Builder's Handbook
Alien I -- Vilani & Vargr
Alien II -- Solamani & Aslan
Starship
The Megatraveller Journal Issues 1,2,3
The Traveller's Digest #21

from Traveller -->  The Traveller Adventure

____________________________________________________________

*** AD&D boxed sets ***

Ravenloft "Realms of Terror"
Maztica Campaign set
The Horde -- Barbarian Campaign set
Spelljammer -- AD&D Adventures in Space
The Legend of Spelljammer

___________________________________________________________

*** AD&D 1st edition stuff ***

Hardcover -- Dungeon Master's Guide
             Unearthed Arcana
             Monster Manual II
             Wilderness Survival Guide
             Dungeoneer's Survival Guide w/ Dark & Hidden Ways module
             Dragonlance Adventures

The Rogues Gallery (1980)
I1    Dwellers of the Forbidden City
I3    Pharaoh
I4    Oasis of the White Palm
I11   Needle
OA1   Swords of the Daimyo

____________________________________________________________

*** AD&D 2nd edition stuff ***

Hardcover -- The Forgotten Realms Adventures

Monstrous Compendium -- Ravenloft Appendix
Monstrous Compendium -- Spelljammer Appendix (index missing)
Monstrous Compendium -- Dragonlance Appendix (no dust jacket)
Monstrous Compendium -- Kara-Tur Appendix

(all sheets have been placed in 3-ring non-glare top loading sheet
 protectors.  They work great for protecting the sheets from
 spills, but they do require additional space (read as more binders.)
 If you want these, please let me know (add $3 to your offer.)

The Forgotten Realms Atlas

FA1   Halls of the High King
FA2   Nightmare Keep
FRA2  Black Courser
H4    The Throne of Bloodstone
LNA2  Lankhmar -- Nehwon
LNA3  Lankhmar -- Prince of Lankhmar
LC2   Inside Raven's Bluff, the Living City
OA6   Oriental Adventures -- Ronin Challenge
WG9   Greyhawk -- Gargoyle
WG10  Greyhawk -- Child's Play
WGA4  Greyhawk -- Venca Lives
WGR1  Greyhawk -- Greyhawk Ruins
SJR1  Spelljammer -- Lost Ships
SJR2  Spelljammer -- Realmspace
SJA2  Spelljammer -- Skull & Crossbows

____________________________________________________________

*** D&D stuff ***

PC3   Creature Crucible -- The Sea People

____________________________________________________________

*** Misc. ***

HERO system rulesbook (4th ed.)
Desert Shield Factbook
MHAC 9 Marvel Superheroes -- Realms of Magic

____________________________________________________________

Thanks,

Tab Stephens

tab@cco.caltech.edu (preferred address for sale items)
tas@ulysses.caltech.edu (general stuff)

------------------------------

Bundle: 375
Archive-Message-Number: 4502
From: Hans Rancke-Madsen <rancke@diku.dk>
Subject: Anti-matter in the Imperium
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 22:45:26 MET DST


Adrian Hurt writes:

>And now you know why the Shionthy system is a Red Zone.  According to
>Adventure 1, Kinunir, that system is a planetoid belt with chunks of
>anti-matter floating around.
>
>What this means is that either the Imperials have already used the
>stuff (TL 15 ships with anti-matter power - not quite such a big
>shudder :-) or that there is some basic reason why they could or
>would not do so, such as the ship blowing up.  If the Imperials can't
>build anti-matter powerplants at TL 15, neither can those TL 10 people.

Unwarranted assumption, I think. It is much more likely that the amount
of anti-matter that the Imperium can get out of Shionthy is too small to
base a squadron of ships on (I doubt that Imperial admirals think in
smaller units than squadrons). The people of Shionthy lives by gathering
anti-matter and selling it to the Imperium (this is the real reason the
Imperium allows them to stay in a system that is interdicted for being
to dangerous to travel in). So they can at least handle the anti-matter.
Wether they can use it in power-plants is another matter. But if you
want to give your players a prototype anti-matter-driven ship you can.

>Or indeed, the TL 8 residents of the Shionthy system.

They can collect it, at least. But maybe they get the tools to do so
from the Imperium.

      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------
This is a passively moderated mailing list. All messages sent to the
submission address will be distributed. The biweekly digest is currently
distributed each Wednesday and Sunday at 9:00pm.

Submissions: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -or- uunet!engrg.uwo.ca!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (James Perkins)

The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 376  4503 26-Jul-1992 bryan borich     misc << STEVE FELLOWS-
 376  4504 27-Jul-1992 Derek Wildstar   TL8 Antimatter technology << >    <TL10
 376  4505 27-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  Wakes, Transonic Drag, and Orbital Fire
 376  4506 27-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  250 Megawatt lasers << }Scott Kellogg s
 376  4507 28-Jul-1992 PAVEWAY          Useless planets <<  One of the major 't
 376  4508 29-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  The Zhodani Distopia << Howdy all,
 376  4509 29-Jul-1992 John Driver      More Q's << Ok, thanks to everyone for
 376  4510 30-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  The PPO series Zhodani Medium Warbot <<
 376  4511 31-Jul-1992 MacGyver         traveller the New Era << Traveller the
 376  4512 31-Jul-1992 Traveller Maili  Re: More Q's << > From: jdriver@netlink

------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4503
Date: 26 Jul 92 11:14:11 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: misc

STEVE FELLOWS-
    <RingWorld Roleplaying game> Well, I've got it, but it's not for sale.
I do have some photocopies that might be available though.

LEONARD ERICKSON-
    <TL10 Antimatter powered ships> You could actually have them at about
TL7-8. At least according to an article I read about umpteen years ago, if
you took the power generated by the U.S. you could make about 1 kilogram
of antimatter in about 1 year.
    Now presuming a world decided to send up Solar Arrays early, and used
the power generated to create AM, they could skip most of the work on Fusion
power and skip directly to AM power (of course some of the work is related,
as I imagine an AM power plant would have some of the same construction
requirements as a Fusion plant.



MT LASERS
Item    6248813                 92/07/22        19:27
From:   ROB.PRIOR                       Robert J. Prior
To:     B.BORICH                        Bryan J. Borich
Sub: Lasers & Atmosphere

Some data to post on TML:

MT has rules for lasers and atmosphere.  The 'to hit' difficulty in
vaccum is the same as normal, but there is no attenuation (therefore the
penetration at longer ranges is good, _if_ you can hit).

All Traveller lasers emit very short pulses (even beam lasers, which just
have a long pulse).  Why?  Because there are no rules for waving a laser
around and hitting a group of people.  It's a post facto rules explanation,
but something to keep in mind.  (And was contaiuned in a letter I got from
GDW many years ago.)
=END=


------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4504
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:57:30 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: TL8 Antimatter technology


>    <TL10 Antimatter powered ships> You could actually have them at about
>TL7-8. At least according to an article I read about umpteen years ago, if
>you took the power generated by the U.S. you could make about 1 kilogram
>of antimatter in about 1 year.
>    Now presuming a world decided to send up Solar Arrays early, and used
>the power generated to create AM, they could skip most of the work on Fusion
>power and skip directly to AM power (of course some of the work is related,
>as I imagine an AM power plant would have some of the same construction
>requirements as a Fusion plant.

An interesting reference is Dr. Robert L Forward's book, _Future Magic_,
which describes many wonderful things (none of which appear to need any
"physics nullifiers").  One of the more interesting proposals was for
antimatter powered space travel.  He does an interesting analysis that
shows that antimatter powered upper stages may be practical for Space
Shuttle payloads.  The gist of the idea is that it costs quite a lot (in
terms of money and fuel) to lift many tons of rocket fuel into orbit on
the space shuttle.  A few grams of antimatter can do the same job, and
may cost less in the long run.  He also presents some workable TL8
containment and propulsion ideas.  It is possible that Earth will
achieve workable fusion technology and workable antimatter technology at
about the same time.  Maybe we should toss the TL chart and draw a new
one.

wildstar@moeng2.minc.umd.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future
------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4505
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:14 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Wakes, Transonic Drag, and Orbital Fire Resolution

Richard sez:
}Scott Kellog:

(Ahem, Richard?  Why do you think my signature is 2G Kellogg?  Come on, you
see my name on your cereal box EVERY morning!  :-)

(Wakes)
> [describes big wave off bow (or stern) of a ship]
> Now, as you may notice, the water behind a ship, inside the barriers of
> the wake, is much less turbulent than either the wake itself or the water
> around it.

}Wellllll, actually there is a difference between this wave & a shock
}wave generated by an aircraft.  The angle between the wave fronts in water
}will *always* be  48 degrees.  No matter how fast the boat moves.  Watch
}sometime.   The angle between the wave fronts for a plane in the air
}changes.  It gets smaller (the wave fronts move together) as the plane
}flies faster.

All quite true.  However, I needed something visible to illustrate a
shockwave that we all are more familiar with.

}I think the reason this happens on the water is surface tension.  A
}classic example of second order effects have a major impact on first
}order effects.

I seem to remember someone once saying that the angle of a wake has to do
with the gravitational force on the water, density, as well as surface
tension.  Thus on another planet, all ships would have the same angle to
their wakes, though it may not be the same as it would be for a vessel on
earth.

(Transonic Drag)
}The human body is not terribly stable in air,
}and @ around .7M & up we should start to see the results of
}compression of the airflow around parts of the body.  That is, for
}instance the shoulder will produce more lift than the foot, for a
}while, etc.

}Me, Id' hate to experience the transonic region, with sock wave,
}compressed flow, turbulence, & induced flutter, without the aid
}of some titanium betweem me & the air.  :=)

The Buffetting experienced by aircraft in the transonic region is
mainly caused by the shockwave passing over the control surfaces of
The aircraft.  This is acutally why the engineers used to call it
'The Sound Barrier' The aircraft of the time were designed in such
a way that the sonic shockwave would disturb the airflow around the
control surfaces rendering them inoperative.  This is what is
referred to as compressibility.

Now a human body has no such control surfaces.  And a person operating
a grav belt will be relying on the thrust of the belt for steering
more than he would on the air flow around him.  So, there wouldn't be
any lessening of control in the region for any grav or space vehicle.
(No air control surfaces!)

(Orbital Lasers & Executive Action)
}Scott says:
}:Well, when you have a camera in orbit capable of resolving 10cm
}:objects on the surface, it's easy enough to correct fire.

}Getting this resolution would be a nighmare, Scott, if you're actually
}in orbit.  Theoretical resolution limits @ your chosen wavelength.
}You'd have to set up a synthetic aperture arrangement with three
}(well two, but three would be better) or more ships.  What DOD
}stellites do is dip into the atmosphere close to the target, get
}higher later.  I *think* it's on the order of 1/2pi*w where w is
}wavelength.

Have you seen "Patriot Games"?  That was what started me on this thread.
The satillite photographs they show there look to me as though they
have a resolution of 10cm.  Now, the satillites aren't orbiting out at
50,000km true (short range for traveller starship combat) But still,
If we can do it at TL 8, they can pull the same trick at TL 15.  Ok, as
Metlay pointed out X-Ray lasers are not the way to go, but a meson gun
could pick off individuals really easily.

Scott *2G* Kellogg
|->

------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4506
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:15 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: 250 Megawatt lasers

}Scott Kellogg sez:
>A 250MW laser would *REALLY* light up a room...  You wear
>goggles to protect your eyes from lasers of less than half a
>watt.  & a 0.095milliwatt laser can damage your eye if you
>stare @ it.  You miss by a few meters & nobody will notice.

Metlay sez:
}Nope again. You get a lot of burnoff from laser beams going through
}crud like air & so on, & the release of heat on impact is ordinary
}incoherent scattered light. You wear goggles to prevent accidental
}coherent light impact, not scatter (although laser speckle can do
}interesting things to your retinas if you stare @ it for a long time).
}The inverse-square law for a point source of 250MW of heat energy can
}be worked out; you get a surprisingly small danger space in terms of
}watts per square meter.

My guess is that the laser speckle of a 250MW beam would do a hell of
a lot of damage to any of the nearby eyeballs.  Think about it.  What
would happen to your eyeballs if someone illuminated the terminal room
yer sitting in with 250MW of ordinary incoherent scattered light?  Not
necessarily lethal, (unless you are sitting on it) but blinding someone
in a combat situation is as effective as killing them.

Scott 2G Kellogg

}REFERENCE: J.D.Jackson's "Classical Electrodynamics," the book that
}turns most young people off of grad school in physics.

*JACKSON*!?!!?  (Excuse me while I run screaming into the night)
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!

|->

------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4507
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 15:32 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Useless planets

	One of the major 'themes' behind the Hard Times supplement is the
fate of the countless worlds in the Imperium that are unable to look after
themselves without outside help etc.
	The main problem I have with all that is who was dumb enough to settle
these rocks in the first place?   I am willing to bet hard Sterling that I can
find at LEAST a dozen worlds per sector that even an Ihatei would balk at moving
to.
	In 2300ad they handle rockballs quite nicely, eg. no-one lives on them
if they can help it if memory serves almost all the colonies are at least
halfway livable at the tech of 2300ad (analagousto what? 9-11?) the only
reason for settling a toxic rock like Hochbaden was Bavarian national pride
and Hoch's minerals.
 Surely not ALL the rocks in MT are so mineral rich?  What about belts in more
accessible/habitable systems?
  Is MT populated by people dumb enough to live on a planet that duff for no
other reason that low rent?
  If you are settling a new world surely you'd pick one you could make self
sufficient?
   I guess it all stems from the 2d6 rolls churned out by the guys who did the
original sector data how else would we get Junidy?   Will MT3TNE be any better?

------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4508
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 15:53 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The Zhodani Distopia

Howdy all,

I got a complaint recently that I've been thinking a bit about.
That being my portrayal of the Zhodani Consulate in the story
I've been posting.

Well, the complaint was along the lines that I was portraying a
distopia in a more favorable light than it is deserving of.
Quite possibly true, however, I should point out that the story
is *FAR* from over.  Perceptions may change.

In any case, I found that the description of the Zhodani
*DIStopia* is very similar to some people's conceptions of a
*Utopia*.  I don't necessarily *agree* with their concept of what
constitutes a utopia, but their's is rather similar to the
Consulate.

So, I thought I'd examine how it gets looked at.

Ok, now, there are a LOT of people who advocate the kind of
collective society that the Consulate is.  Many of these people
advocate re-education of the masses to bring them around to their
point of view.  They say criminals should be re-educated, not
imprisoned.  Or in extreme cases re-educated then executed.
Those who disagree with them are attacked and would undoubtedly
be put into re-education centers if this group had their way.

Who are these folks?  The Politically Correct Nazis we often find
today.  If you gave the PC's psionics, they would turn into
something *VERY* like the Thought Police.  After all what other
groups have defined *thoughts* as crimes?  Laughing at a non-PC
joke is an offence. |-P

Acually, the Zho Thought Police would probably be much more
understanding of human emotions than the PC's.  After all the
Zho's have had millenia to study and map the human mind in
*exactitude*.  Thus, they would realize that some human emotions
which are suppressed and attacked in a PC society are more firmly
based in the human mind and are fundamental to the health of the
mind.

I don't want to get into an argument on the PC movement.  I have
sympathies to the more moderate side, but the radical edge of the
PC's are truely out of their minds.

Ok, let's look at a utopic Politically Correct society, which
uses psionics that we all (unfortuately) are familiar with:  The
New Star Trek.  There is a psi officer aboard the Enterprise who
serves as the ship's 'councellor' (Thought Police, Zampolit,
Political Officer).  She monitors the emotions of the crew and
those they interact with.  She 'councels' or 're-educates'
individuals who are in need of 'help'.  If a crew member was
contemplating a crime, you can bet that the ship's 'councellor'
would take steps to prevent it.  How different is this from the
Evil Zhodani Thought Police? (tm)  Not very far if you ask me.

Where does the Zhodani Consulate diverge from these?
Well, the Zho's aren't a cashless society.  But that's not
important here.

The Zho's have a hereditary nobility, and their education is
strongly linked to their social rank.  The PC's wouldn't like
that bit.

Well, the hereditary nobility can be put off according to the
theory that psi ability is genetic.  (It might be, it mightn't be
there is no real way to tell for certain from the character
generation tables)  This system is understandable and to be
expected.  Note however, that proles can become nobles if they
show promise in the field of psionics.  Proles stand a much
better chance of getting into the nobility than Imperial
commoners.

The education bit is the real sticking point.  You can't have an
education greater than your social standing unless it is aquired
during your terms of service.  Presumably, Proles aren't admitted
to college.  (gotta check that one)

Scott "2G" Kellogg
(New Star Trek:  Note that we never see the Proles there.  All
characters are officers.  And you never see a psi who isn't
either an officer or a noble or official of some kind)

PS.  Please let's not start talking about Star Trek on the TML.
I just needed to use an example.

------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4509
Subject: More Q's
From: jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 22:29:42 PDT

Ok, thanks to everyone for clearing up my problem with AT's.  Now
after going through the books that I have I have some other
questions that perhaps you can answer. . .


Has anyone compiled a list of tasks that they have used in their
campaigns?  What I am thinking is that I am going to want to keep a
record of tasks, so I can stay consistent from day to day, and if
someone has already done this I can use some of the tasks on their
lists, without making up one on the fly and worrying about whether
it is accurate or not.

What is Allegiance Na (Not Available?), Uh, and Go, found in the
Dark Nebula Sector (Solomani & Aslan)?

Where is Zalucha (Massilia Sector, Knightfall adventure)?  It's hex
code is listed as being 2508, but so is Janeen, and Janeen appears
on the map in this hex, while Zalucha isn't even shown.

What is the population multiplier?  It is not explained in the
Ref's handbook.  Also, how do you figure out population density.

What is the signifigance of Stellar Size?  It says like Size II,
II, VI, D, etc in the Ref's book but I couldn't find an explanation
for it.  I know it is used for system creation but I want to know
what they mean in terms of diameter.

Under Step 6 of Extended System Generation it says to "Use the
previous throw for primary star type/size as +DM."  Does this mean
that if I rolled a type K star for my primary star (8 on a 2-12
scale) that the roll for the companion star would be +8?!  This is
precisely what it says to do but I don't see the reasoning behind
that one.  It effectively means that I can't roll anything higher
than a four if I want to stay on the chart.

I didn't like how a character's home planet law level dictated what
weapon skills that character could choose during creation.  So I
made the following changes.  Marines, no matter what law level
their home planet is, can choose any weapon skills.  This is
because they are a combat force and spend most of their time in
space anyway.  Same with Army. Even if they are stuck on their home
planet, government tech level inhibitions probably wouldn't apply
to them.  I could understand a planetary militia having SOME
restrictions, but an Imperial Marine shouldn't be disallowed to get
Energy Weapons simply because his homeworld doesn't allow them there.
Anyone see reasons why I shouldn't implement this in my campaign?

Ok, thanks again.  hasta.


- --
INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdriver
NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115

------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4510
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 12:34 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The PPO series Zhodani Medium Warbot

Evolution of the Zhodani Medium Warbot
(Megatrav versions of the common Zho warbot)

The Tliazhashal Corporation began manufacturing the PPO series
medium warbot when the corporation was founded in -4022 (Imperial).
The warbots accompanied the first Zhodani Core Expedition and have
been front line Consular equipment since then.  This makes it the
longest running model robot still currently in production.  The
design has been updated many times including a tech level fifteen
model (PPO5) which came off the drawing board in 1103.  The PPO5 is
produced on Zhdant and has yet to see full scale production
elsewhere in the Consulate.

The deployed front line units of the Consulate use the PPO4 model,
though some of the older models still see service in reserve units.

There have been some PPO series robots produced illegally outside
the Consulate.  However production of these units has ceased as
mysteriously as it began and the source of the robots was never
identified.

Armament is typically a laser rifle, though heavier armament such
as plasma (PGMP-13) or fusion (FGMP-14) guns may be substituted.
A RAM auto grenade launcher is also a common substitute in which
case the robot carries a load of 100 rounds.  Armament is carried
in a swiveling belt around the mid-section of the robot.  This
makes the robot a more stable gun platform when it mounts plasma or
fusion weapons, however it requires that the robot expose more of
itself in order to fire.

The robot has racks installed on its back for quick mission
specialization.  Typically these may mount sensors for advanced
reconaissance.  Laser communicators are also often used, as well as
electronic warfare pods.  Defensively they may mount smoke, flare
or chaff dispensers, prismatic-anti-laser-aerosols, or even small
sand casters.  The fuel cell power supply produces an extra 7Kw for
use by these mounted devices (only 6Kw available if a fusion gun is
mounted).

Less commonly, Tac missile launchers may be fitted to the robot's
racks which then home on target with the robot using its laser
rifle as a target designator.

The PPO series is also programmed and set to respond to psionic
flicking.  This allows a zhodani noble to take control of the robot
by use of psionics.

CraftID:  PPO0 Warbot, TL10, Cr 250,650
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=150Liter, Config=3USL, Armor=5E,
          Unload=292.1Kg, Loaded=292.7Kg (Book 8 damage=45/75)
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=55kw Dur=28.1hrs
Loco:     (1/1) Grav=400kg, Accel=.37G, NOE=40, Cruise=225, Top=300
Comm:     Voder, Radio=Dist(50Km)
Sensors:  Visual*2, Audio*2, Olfactory*1
Devices:  Medium Arm*2
Off/Def:  Laser Rifle
Control:  Brain (Linear=30, Parallel=10, StdStorage=30)
          Electronic Circuit Protection
Programs: Low Data, Lim Basic Command, Grav-1, Tactics-1,
          Weapon-Handling-1, Ground-Infantry-Combat-1
Other:    Fuel=8.8Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Strength=47
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=1
Education=3

CraftID:  PPO1 Warbot, TL11, Cr 179,370
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=150Liter, Config=3USL, Armor=5E,
          Unload=291.9Kg, Loaded=292.7Kg (Book 8 damage=45/75)
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=55kw Dur=33hrs
Loco:     (1/1) Grav=400kg, Accel=.37G, NOE=40, Cruise=225, Top=300
Comm:     Voder, Radio=Dist(50Km)
Sensors:  Visual*2, Audio*2, Olfactory*1
Devices:  Medium Arm*2
Off/Def:  Laser Rifle
Control:  Brain (Linear=35, Parallel=5, StdStorage=30)
          Electronic Circuit Protection
Programs: Low Data, Lim Basic Command, Grav-1, Tactics-1,
          Weapon-Handling-1, Ground-Infantry-Combat-1
Other:    Fuel=10.3Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Strength=47
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=1
Education=3

CraftID:  PPO2 Warbot, TL12, Cr 93,038
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=150Liter, Config=3USL, Armor=5F,
          Unload=287.6Kg, Loaded=288.7Kg (Book 8 damage=45/75)
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=55kw Dur=50.5hrs
Loco:     (1/1) Grav=400kg, Accel=.39G, NOE=40, Cruise=225, Top=300
Comm:     Voder, Radio=Dist(50Km)
Sensors:  Visual*2, Audio*2, Olfactory*1
Devices:  Medium Arm*2
Off/Def:  Laser Rifle
Control:  Brain (Linear=20, StdStorage=30)
          Electronic Circuit Protection
Programs: Low Data, Lim Basic Command, Grav-1, Tactics-1,
          Weapon-Handling-1, Ground-Infantry-Combat-1
Other:    Fuel=15.8Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Strength=47
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=1
Education=3

CraftID:  PPO3 Warbot, TL13, Cr 88,851
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=150Liter, Config=3USL, Armor=5F,
          Unload=207.3Kg, Loaded=210.1Kg (Book 8 damage=45/75)
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=55kw Dur=7.1days
Loco:     (1/1) Grav=400kg, Accel=.91G, NOE=40, Cruise=225, Top=300
Comm:     Voder, Radio=Dist(50Km)
Sensors:  Visual*2, Audio*2, Olfactory*1
Devices:  Medium Arm*2
Off/Def:  Laser Rifle
Control:  Brain (Linear=20, StdStorage=20)
          Electronic Circuit Protection
Programs: Low Data, Lim Basic Command, Grav-1, Tactics-1,
          Weapon-Handling-1, Ground-Infantry-Combat-1
Other:    Fuel=39.8Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Strength=47
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=2
Education=2

CraftID:  PPO4 Warbot, TL14, Cr 85,476
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=150Liter, Config=3USL, Armor=5G,
          Unload=202.6Kg, Loaded=205.7Kg (Book 8 damage=45/75)
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=55kw Dur=7.9days
Loco:     (1/1) Grav=400kg, Accel=.95G, NOE=40, Cruise=225, Top=300
Comm:     Voder, Radio=Dist(50Km)
Sensors:  Visual*2, Audio*2, Olfactory*1
Devices:  Medium Arm*2
Off/Def:  Laser Rifle
Control:  Brain (Linear=20, StdStorage=11)
          Electronic Circuit Protection
Programs: Low Data, Lim Basic Command, Grav-1, Tactics-1,
          Weapon-Handling-1, Ground-Infantry-Combat-1
Other:    Fuel=44.3Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Strength=47
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=3
Education=1

CraftID:  PPO5 Warbot, TL15, Cr 84,875
Hull:     (1/3) Disp=150Liter, Config=3USL, Armor=5G,
          Unload=151.9Kg, Loaded=156.4Kg (Book 8 damage=45/75)
Power:    (1/1) FuelCell=55kw Dur=18.5days
Loco:     (1/1) Grav=400kg, Accel=1.6G, NOE=40, Cruise=225, Top=300
Comm:     Voder, Radio=Dist(50Km)
Sensors:  Visual*2, Audio*2, Olfactory*1
Devices:  Medium Arm*2
Off/Def:  Laser Rifle
Control:  Brain (Linear=20, StdStorage=11)
          Electronic Circuit Protection
Programs: Low Data, Lim Basic Command, Grav-1, Tactics-1,
          Weapon-Handling-1, Ground-Infantry-Combat-1
Other:    Fuel=62.8Liter, EMLevel=Mod, ObjSize=Small
Strength=47
Dexerity=15
Intelligence=4
Education=1

Scott 2G Kellogg
(Speaking of robots...  if you ever get a chance, check out the
Terminal transportation at Atlanta International Airport.  The damn
thing sounds *exactly* like the voice in _Collosus:  The Forbin
Project_.  I kept expecting it to announce a nuclear missile launch!  :-)

------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4511
From: MacGyver <macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: traveller the New Era
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 8:46:07 EDT

Traveller the New Era has been delayed, till November...


------------------------------

Bundle: 376
Archive-Message-Number: 4512
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 10:40:02 EDT
From: Traveller Mailing List Mail <tml@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: More Q's


> From: jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
>
> What is Allegiance Na (Not Available?), Uh, and Go, found in the
> Dark Nebula Sector (Solomani & Aslan)?

Na is Non-Aligned. The others are Aslan Clans I believe, but I don't
have references handy.

>
> What is the population multiplier?  It is not explained in the
> Ref's handbook.  Also, how do you figure out population density.

Population multiplier is the first digit in the population. Thus if
you have a population code of 6 1,000,000 - 9,999,999 people (quite
a range) then a multiplier of 4 indicates that there is 4x10^6 or
4,000,000-4,999,999 people (a much narrower range).

Density is people per unit area, thus knowing the surface area of a
sphere = 4*pi*r^2 If people do not live in the water then the
hydrographics percentage must be taken away from the surface area.
Then those people living in orbit (if significant) should be taken away
from the population total. Dividing the latter by the former will
give you population density.
This is of course of no real use. If you look at earth there are
large sections where the density is far below the mean (the poles,
deserts, etc.) while there are areas where the density is far greater
(Hong Kong, Japan, etc.)

>
> What is the signifigance of Stellar Size?  It says like Size II,
> II, VI, D, etc in the Ref's book but I couldn't find an explanation
> for it.  I know it is used for system creation but I want to know
> what they mean in terms of diameter.

Other than the fact that the sun is a Size V, not having my
astronomy texts makes this one hard to answer...

>
> Under Step 6 of Extended System Generation it says to "Use the
> previous throw for primary star type/size as +DM."  Does this mean
> that if I rolled a type K star for my primary star (8 on a 2-12
> scale) that the roll for the companion star would be +8?!  This is
> precisely what it says to do but I don't see the reasoning behind
> that one.  It effectively means that I can't roll anything higher
> than a four if I want to stay on the chart.

This rule reflects the fact that smaller stars will have even
smaller companions (otherwise the first star would be referred
to as the companion). Most stars will have a dwarf star as a companion
and these tend to be Red (cool) stars. Presumably if you roll >12
then you should be reading the 12 result on the table.

>
> I didn't like how a character's home planet law level dictated what
> weapon skills that character could choose during creation.  So I
> made the following changes.  Marines, no matter what law level
> their home planet is, can choose any weapon skills.  This is
> because they are a combat force and spend most of their time in
> space anyway.  Same with Army. Even if they are stuck on their home
> planet, government tech level inhibitions probably wouldn't apply
> to them.  I could understand a planetary militia having SOME
> restrictions, but an Imperial Marine shouldn't be disallowed to get
> Energy Weapons simply because his homeworld doesn't allow them there.
> Anyone see reasons why I shouldn't implement this in my campaign?

As long as you don't allow the characters to muster out with fusion
weapons, then it won't matter if they are skilled with them or not.
Weapons of semi-mass destruction can cause many problems in a game,
not to mention scaring the natives.
However I do disagree with your points. First of all with law level.
Consider the use of military forces. If they are planet bound, and
the world is not balkanized, then the military won't need to have
weapons that many law levels above the populace. If they are
imperial, then the homeworld will have no effect, as the troops
will not be stationed on a single world. You should check exactly
what branch the characters have enlisted in. I don't get down to the
U.S. much, but I am quite certain that the U.S. Marines don't spend
too much of their time in space...
As for tech levels. This is where I most stongly disagree. Any Imperial
force can get whatever tech level you choose (usually 14-15). A subsector
force up to whatever the highest tech level in the subsector. However a
planetary force will not have any significant number of weapons (more than
one elite unit's worth) of a higher tech level for two reasons. 1) The
military is often ultra conservative. It is common for weapons to
be available for several years before the army will equip the main troops
with new weapons. (e.g. During the U.S. Civil war. Repeating rifles
were available, but the troops were issued with muskets) 2) The military
is very concerned with supplies and availablity of repair parts. Just
imagine if the tech 10 planetary force is equipped with tech 14 fusion
weapons. An invading force can simply blockade the planet, and skirmish
for a while. Soon the defending forces will have no functioning weapons,
and if they are not trained with non-energy weapons will be simple to
roll over with invading troops.
>
> Ok, thanks again.  hasta.
>
>
> - --
> INTERNET:  jdriver@netlink.cts.com (John Driver)
> UUCP:   ...!ryptyde!netlink!jdriver
> NetLink Online Communications * Public Access in San Diego, CA (619) 453-1115
>

		-Dan

Dan Corrin, Network Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
InterNet: dan@engrg.uwo.ca.                                (519) 661-3834
TML/CZ/FrameUsers/Consim FTP site: sunbane.engrg.uwo.ca (129.100.100.12)

------------------------------
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 377  4513 31-Jul-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4 Part
 377  4514 31-Jul-1992 c_hamilton%W036  Maneuver Drive and Sensors << Sorry if
 377  4515 01-Aug-1992 Leonard Erickso  fusion rockets etc << In Archive-Messag
 377  4516 02-Aug-1992 Cynthia Higginb  Fusion rockets... << Leonard Erickson:
 377  4517 03-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  YAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! :-) << Was gonna sen
 377  4518 03-Aug-1992 David Sansom     Fusion rockets... << As a point of inte
 377  4519 04-Aug-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  Traveller the NEW ERA << Hi, I'm new to
 377  4520 04-Aug-1992 "Bart Van Braba  Beginner << I am not a complete beginne
 377  4521 05-Aug-1992 Leonard Erickso  Fusion rockets... << In Archive-Message
 377  4522 05-Aug-1992 Cynthia Higginb  more fusion rockets << Leonard Erickson
 377  4523 06-Aug-1992 PAVEWAY          Biospheres <<  Are there any biologists
 377  4524 06-Aug-1992 PAVEWAY          Hobby horses <<   In recent months I ha
 377  4525 06-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  4.5th Frontier War Truce << Hi folks,

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4513
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:22 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4 Part 5)

     DOWN THE WELLES
          - XLIII -
     Miakr called down from the bridge.  "We've got targets!"
Jietlshaiepr hit the intercom, "Where are they?"
     "About seven hundred kilometers south east.  Heading
directly west.  They ought to pass within three hundred
kilometers of us.  Looks like three of the grav artillery
platforms and a G-carrier."
     Shtam turned to Corporal Delt, "You said you saw two
G-carriers.  We just accounted for two of them."
     "They might hove recovered it." sighed Smith.
     "It sounds as though they're headed back te their island."
announced Lt. Dragoon.
     "After doing what?" mused Kfoks, "I wonder..."
     "Jietlshaiepr," began Lt. Jones, "I hove a recon robot loose
upstairs, observing the mercs.  If we could get an antenna above
the surface we could find out exactly whot they been up to."
          - XLIV -
     "...cord.  Understand?  DAMMIT!  Are you recording this!?"
     The mechanical voice of the recon robot replied,
"Affirmative."
     Crulley's voice came back, tense and worried, "Oh...  Dr.
Jones?...  Able Spacehand Crulley 'ere... Uh...  We got big
trouble...  The mercs killed a dozen hostages... massacred an
entire town... They threaten more unless we surrender...
     They showed up in the capital wi' their tanks... dropped off
some 'ostages..." Crulley swallowed, "They gunned 'em down.  They
came over on loudspeakers that unless we surrender they'll start
destroyin' the towns one by one.
     "The people are ta hand us over ta 'em or be destroyed...
They demanded us by name...  If the natives don't hand us over ta
them, they'll destroy the towns...
     "A mob came after me...  I escaped, but that goddam robot of
yours fired on 'em...  I can't get it ta follow my orders
right...  It saw them trying ta attack and opened fire...  I
don't know how many it killed...  We had ta get out of there...
     "Right now, I'm aboard the Pasadena, the big grav ironclad.
Lucky, not everyone's lost their 'eads.  But, the Welles Navy
plans ta attack the mercs.  Unless, we'll help 'em, they'll hove
ta try handin' us over.
     "The recon robot should be able ta keep track o' where the
Pasadena is...  I 'ope...  I'm sending it ta find you.  I think
it understands my orders.
     "All right, that's enough, cut it...  Do you hear?... Cut
it!...  Understand?...  STOP RECORDI!..."
          - VL -
     The plan was quickly formed.  Negotiation was not even
seriously considered except as a delaying tactic.  Surrender was
out of the question; anyone who did would undoubtedly be killed.
     By themselves, the ironclad flotilla would be wiped out.
But, a commando strike supported by the natives in their grav
ironclads might just take the mercs down a notch or two.
          - IVL -
     The interrogation of the pirate turned messy.  Lt. Jones
pulled him out of the low berth and stared into his mind.  A
search light went on over the consciousness of the man.  Facts
flowed from his mind like gelatin through the strainer of Jones
psionic probe.
     Zylath, a small planet in a large asteroid belt held their
operational base...  The Church of the Soverinity of Sol was
their recruiting office...  Their main base was on... ?  The man
himself was from... ?  They were supported by the government
of... ?  Their mission was to attack any and all shipping:
disrupt interstellar communication.  Commandeer any possible
vessel for the forces of... ?  All military vessels not
vulnerable must be harassed.  Military cargoes took priority over
civilian.  Use whatever force available to destroy that which can
not be captured.  Do not engage superior forces.  If captured use
the suicide capsule implanted in right upper molar.  If you
survive, your full memory will be restored for you, but for now
absolute security must be maintained...
          - IIIL -
     Tuerz walked dejectedly into the crew lounge carrying the
black instrument case.  "I couldn't get any more out of him than
you did."
     "Our friends're quite paranoid." sighed Smith.  "Memory
wipe's rather dangerous stuff te play wi'."
     Lt. Jones noticed a wet hairy rag in Tuerz hand as he played
with it.  It was an exceedingly familiar color.  "Is 'e still
alive."
     "Barely, though I don't think we'll get any more from him.
May as well kill him." Tuerz sighed and held up the lump of hair.
"Well, at least he wasn't bald."
     Jietlshaiepr blanched, "All right, Tuerz.  Get rid of him
quickly."
     "Flush 'im." agreed Lt. Jones.
     Tuerz nodded, "Well, Ok.  But I won't enjoy it."
          - IIL -
     A skeleton crew was left on the Flamboyant.  The rest piled
into the Gig and made for rendezvous with the Welles flotilla.
It was one of the strangest sights seen by man.  Four ironclads
steaming majestically through the air exuding black oily smoke
from their stacks.
     "We have a better grade of coal aboard:  low sulfur content,
but we are saving it for the attack.  For now we shall have to
tolerate the smoke." Captain Colorado of the Pasadena pointed
out.  Nepotism aside, he was a capable officer despite his noble
position:  heir to the first officership of the Prague.  The
actual hereditary first officer, his mother was admiral of the
fleet.  Yet Admiral Colorado was quite old so her son truly
commanded the fleet.
     "She's a fine ship." nodded Jietlshaiepr.  "What's her flank
speed?"
     "Forty three kilometers per hour airspeed.  The smaller
ships can make about fifty eight."
     "We'd better come in on the windward side o' their base."
advised Jones.
     "Agreed." nodded Captain Colorado.  "I've been over our
charts and set course such that we should arrive on target at
dawn tomorrow.  We'll sweep in with the wind, and try to catch
them with their defenses down."
     "If I can get some of my team inside one of their tanks,"
thought Jietlshaiepr, "they'll have plenty to keep them
occupied."
     "How do you propose to do that?" asked Colorado
disbelievingly.
     "I am a noble of the Zhodani Consulate.  I can teleport with
ease.  The Droyne crew have a much better clairvoyant than I am.
They will give us a view of the target and we teleport inside."
     "Can you handle that machine?" Colorado asked.
     "Lt. Gresha has operated similar tanks, I will carry her
along with me.  We can run it, but we'll need help."
     Smith interjected, "That's where I come in.  Those aren't
really tanks so much as mobile artillery pieces:  'eavy weapons
wi' a powerful computer te back it up."
     "And te operate the guns there's the Droyne gunner from the
Kivas, Heet Kiv.  It's a teleport as well." added Jones. "I'll be
going in wi' my security robot, Corporal Delt, Miakr and the
robot dog Vole.  We'll attack the transport ships wi' demolition
packs.  Thot way, we can insure none'll escape before
reinforcements arrive from the League o' Suns."
     Captain Colorado looked Jones in the eye, "I'd be happy if
they just left.  As long as they're off my planet."
     "They'd come back." Smith pointed out.
     "Possibly, but not till we'd had a chance to prepare."
     "We must prevent 'em from striking another planet li' this
one." urged Jones.
     "That won't bring back our dead, nor will it stop them from
burning our towns to ashes."
     "No." admitted Jietlshaiepr, "But, it might prevent the
horror from striking another world.  It may well stop another
holocaust."
          - IL -
     Dawn.
     Red sky in the morning,
     Sailor take warning.
     The ironclad flotilla cruised in low skimming the waves as
they raced out of the sun to the island in tight formation.  Sand
spread over bright red painted decks to keep them from getting
slippery with blood.  Sunrise glinting off gunmetal six pounders.
Grape shot and round shot standing by.  Artillery rockets set up
in the crow's nest.  Gatling guns polished to an oily shine.  Rum
ration quickly drunk.  Welles Navy battle ensign flapping in the
wind.  Signal flags:  "Welles expects everyone to their duty."
          - L -
     The flotilla scattered as it soared over the beaches.  Only
an unnamed mountain stood between the ironclads and their target
as the strike force jumped in grav belts.  Jietlshaiepr relaxed
to save her strength; she'd every ounce soon enough.
     The Droyne felt out with the combined strength of their
minds.  Yes, the tanks lay unmanned; unmanned and unpowered.  The
image burned in Jietlshaiepr.  And in Smith.  And in the Droyne
Warrior, Heet Kiv.
     They were there.  Jietlshaiepr puffed with the exertion and
distance as she and Gresha came into existence inside the grav
tank.
     "Vargr!  What a ride!" breathed Gresha.  Immediately, she
scanned the controls of the mobile artillery piece.  Heavy
weapons, heavy power needs, heavy weight.  "Find me a checklist.
Fast!"  She began to guess her way through the starting
procedure.  Can't give the thing a walk around, but they must
keep it ready for action...  Fusion plant starting sequence...
Starting batteries...  Fuel flow...  Magnetic bottle...
Grrracht!  Where's the vacuum pumps?!
     "GaaaerrrrrrrRRRRR!"  Capacitors discharged, pumps surged
deuterium flowed, a spark began to glow in the belly of the
monster.
     "There, now we've power to close the damn door!" she panted.
"Now, all we can do is wait for full power."
     The view screens looked outside.  Bored sentries stood
outside.  None looked more than half awake in the fingers of
dawn.
     Slowly, a group walked out of a large barracks.  Four
comrades walked side by side towards the lead grav tank.  A man
and a woman flanked by two men.  The man in the center:  1.85
meters tall, fair skin, short cropped blonde hair.
     Smith zoomed the screen in on his face.
     "Major Ollie Sutherland..."
     The crew walked over to their grav tank and embarked.
     A second crew began walking to the other grav tank.
     The hull of the lead tank shut itself.
     From the same barracks, two men walked out and turned to
face the barracks door waiting.
     "How's our power?" asked Jietlshaiepr.
     "Thirty six megawatts and rising...  We'll need about fifty
two to get aloft...  Thirty seven megawatts...  about forty
seconds, four minutes after that we'll have full power."
     One more figure came out of the barracks an joined the other
two.  The three men stood together, talking and yawning in the
early light.  A fourth came shaking a sleepy head.  They walked
toward the last grav tank:  theirs.
     Smith glared into the tank commander's mind:  "I've
forgotten something..."
     He hesitated and started back.  He got halfway back before
he turned around again.  He ran to catch up when the one leading
the group fell flat on his face.  Smith stifled a laugh as he
found his shoe laces tied together.  A bored sentry laughed and
walked over to help him.
     Smith sat silent.
     Slowly, unnoticed, but sure and deadly, the pin worked out
of one of the sentries grenades.
     The sentry and two of the tank crew shattered in a red
cloud.  The explosion echoed over the base.
     "Wake them, ought to." chirped Heet.
     One echo suddenly came louder than the others, the burst of
a six pound load of grape shot as the first of the ironclads came
in range.  They came flying over the northern foot hills of the
nameless mountain.  They'd broken formation and were attacking at
will.  The Weehawken came first, flying low followed by the
Bismark on the Weehawken's port side.  To starboard drove the
Laramie while the Pasadena fell behind with her inferior speed.
     Suddenly, the lead grav tank lifted off and moved away from
the camp.
     "We've got flying power!" called Gresha.
     "Keep it on the ground." snapped Smith.  "We'll play dead
until we've got full power."
     Ollie Sutherland's grav tank began belching six centimeter
shells from it's twin auto cannon.  The G-carrier lifted off and
opened up with a five megawatt laser.  Suddenly, the Pasadena was
on fire.  The port bow gouted flame as iron plate melted and wood
ignited.
     The guns were not silenced as the Pasadena took on a list to
starboard.  The starboard six pounder spoke in defiance and the
gatling guns sniped at the mercenaries as they ran for cover.
     A six pound shell burst on the G-carrier's side sending it
spinning.  The armor plate cracked under the force of the blast
opening the hull like a walnut.  Inside, the two crew looked out
the gaping hole in surprise before they regained control of the
spinning troop carrier.
     An Air/Raft came whizzing in to intercept the Weehawken,
death spat from a VRF gauss gun as the raft strafed the ironclad.
     Suddenly, the air thudded loudly with the sound of a
charging heavy plasma gun.  A shriek as it fired, blazing out in
a deadly bolt which struck the Pasadena in the casemate.
     The Pasadena shattered in a blinding flash as plasma found
the magazine.
          - LI -
     Niedrsha gripped the PGMP-14 tightly, and swooped up from
tree top flight to intercept the G-carrier as it came out of its
spin.  Drert pulled up sharply to follow carrying a FGMP-14.
     The G-carrier was just turning to bear on the Laramie when
the plasma gun blazed.  A bolt of ionized plasma seared through
the aft end of the G-carrier throwing molten armor plate into the
air.  An explosion rang from inside and flame blazed out of the
hole the six pounder had gouged.  A moment later it began to fall
like a brick.  It plowed a deep path through a glen before
burying itself and exploding.
     Suddenly, Niedrsha's battle dress sensors went wild.
     The near miss indicator screamed about flying metal.  He
jerked his head to look as VRF gauss needles ripped his chest
open.
          - LII -
     Shtam and Kfoks peeled off after the Air/Raft closely
followed by Tuerz.  Shtam's gauss rifle cracked 4mm death at the
crew.  The gunner at the VRF gauss gun suddenly went into an
epileptic seizure as his body shook under the repeated impacts of
supersonic gauss needles.
     The driver slumped when half his head exploded under the
storm of X-rays from Tuerz laser pistol.
     The radio channel to Niedrsha and Drert was dead.
          - LIII -
     Lt. Jones, Miakr, Vole, Corporal Delt, and the security
robot flew in towards the transports just above the trees.  They
on a different attack course from the others so they would not
attract too much unwanted attention.
     Jones watched over his shoulder as Major Ollie's tank lined
up on the now blazing Weehawken.  The air shuddered as the heavy
gun prepared to fire.  A thousand devils screamed as it poured
its hell plasma onto the ironclad.  A cloud blazed as the ship
disintegrated.
     "Corporal Delt!" shouted Jones, "Halt!  Stand guard over me.
The rest of you, get the charges planted!"
     Jones went to the ground and stared at the menacing tank as
it lined up to fire on the Bismark.  He wrapped his mind around
one of his demolition charges.  Under his determined guidance, it
lifted into the air and flew towards the tank.  His grip weakened
as it lengthened.  He struggled to keep it aloft.
     The air began to shudder again announcing the devil fire
when the magnetic charge attached itself with a loud click.
Inside, did they wonder what had hit them?
     Jones flicked the detonator.
     The grav tank was enveloped in smoke and flame.  Can the
charge punch a hole in that armor?
     As the smoke cleared, the tank began to wobble.  The whine
of tortured machinery sounded across the island just audible
under the cannon fire.
     The crew cockpit was smashed open like a ripped can.  Armor
plates buckled around a gaping hole.  The tank listed to
starboard and plowed through the island growths before it ground
itself to a stop.
     Jones and Delt lit off to investigate.
          - LIV -
     Niedrsha stood in amazement.
     The armored body lying before him made no sense.
     Lying on the ground was half a figure in Zhodani battle
dress.  In it's arms was a PGMP-14 apparently undamaged.  On the
left shoulder was written 'Niedrsha'.
     He glanced at himself in confusion.  What am I doing lying
over there dead?  Suddenly, something clawed at him.  The weapon
in his hand...
     was a fusion gun...?
     I was carrying a plasma gun and Drert had a fusion gun...
This one!
     He looked at his left shoulder patch:  'Drert'.
     With rising dread he pushed the emergency release on the
dead body's helmet.  It split into the two clamshell halves
revealing Drert's face.
          - LV -
     "We've got full power!" shouted Gresha.
     "Take off!" shouted Smith, as Jietlshaiepr sat in grief and
confusion.  "Get us out of the blast region!  We're gonna smear
that tank over the horizon."
     The last grav tank lay rounded, still unable to get power
up.  A six pound shell smacked into the side of the tank and
bounced harmlessly off the heavy armor plateing.
     "Those grreeches idiots are shooting at us!" growled Gresha.
She glanced at Jietlshaiepr as she sat frozen at the controls.
     Not quite frozen.  The air began booming as the heavy gun
stewed it's plasma blast.
     Jietlshaiepr triggered the gun and sent the helpless grav
tank to oblivion.
          - LVI -
     Lt. Dragoon, Able Spacehand Turner, and Private Walker
soared in towards the mercenary command center.  Dragoon's laser
rifle spewed visible wavelength photons wildly as she bore in on
the target singlemindedly.  Figures in combat armor saw the three
Valkyries blazing death at them and returned fire with light
assault guns.
     Flechettes cascaded off the trio's armor.  They weren't
expecting armored targets...
     Walker's PGMP-12 blazed once rending limbs from two
different defenders.
     "Look out!" screamed Turner, "Warbots:  four o'clock!"
     Three medium Zhodani warbots, PPO series, came in at them
blazing light from laser rifles.
     Walker glowed red for a moment and slumped.  Her grav belt
continued to carry her over the base.
     Turner dove for cover among the base buildings with a warbot
on her tail.  Dragoon blazed laser light of her own at the
warbots.
          - LVII -
     Miakr was just approaching the transports when the warbot
cry went up.  "It's a blasted good thing I..." he muttered and
flipped on the high powered transmitter he'd mounted on his belt.
He could only guess as to the frequencies used by the robots, and
Zhodani warbot security was tough.  Still there was a chance...
          - LVIII -
     Lt. Jones and Corporal Delt leapfrogged over to the crash
site.  The tank lay on its belly, leaning on its starboard side.
The main gun hung dead on its goose neck with the shredded
command pennant hanging by a thread.  The cockpit had been
cracked and torn open by the blast.  Delt covered Jones as he
leaped inside with his SMG at the ready.
     Jones refolded the SMG into a small featureless box and
attached it to his belt:  no threats here.  Four bodies lay in
the couches.  One of the three gunners were more or less intact.
One's head and right shoulder were missing.  The driver at first
looked merely surprised.  She sat slumped at the controls wide
eyed and blank faced, but a steel rod had run straight through
her head.
     Ollie Sutherland was slumped at the controls for the main
gun.  There was blood on his uniform and couch, but very little
on him.
     He was deeply unconscious.  Jones quickly went over him and
found... nothing?  Jones took a step back and came to the
realization that his patient, while spattered in his own
(obviously fresh) blood, was perfectly healthy.
     Jones slipped a tranquilizer into his blood stream.  Well,
if he's Ok, let's keep him.
     He told Corporal Delt to stand guard over the prisoner and
flew off to the fray.
          - LIX -
     The warbots froze and hovered.  Only one was left near
Dragoon, the others had been harrying the ironclads.
     Dragoon looked at Walker and Turner through the pain of the
laser burns on her waist and left thigh.  Walker was still alive
at least.  Turner's combat armor was far too grotesquely melted
for that diagnosis.
     She turned on the command center.  A figure in combat armor
crouched behind the doorway with a light assault gun.  There was
a sudden flash in the door as Dragoon's laser illuminated it.
     A round of high explosive blazed from a window and exploded
meters from her.
     She paused to consider how best to send the defenders to
hell, when an Air/Raft swooped in with Tuerz at the controls.
Shtam sent burst after burst of VRF gauss needles into the
building while Kfoks and a confused looking figure in Drert's
battle dress held their fire:  fusion guns would demolish the
entire command building.
     Suddenly, the figure in the door held his hand to his ear,
stood at attention, saluted, and fell woodenly.
     "'at's it!" came Jones's voice, "Their checking out!"
     Dragoon charged in.
          - LX -
     Dragoon managed to kill one of the defenders before the
poison had completely finished him off.  She kicked the door to
the commander's office open.  Nobody home?
     The camera system on her combat armor picked up the bomb.
     Lt. Jones only got a glimpse of it through the relay before
Dragoon dived through a window and flew off shouting.
     "Everybody get clear!" he called with authority over the
radio as he came barrelling in.  He guessed it was only a kiloton
but that was enough.
     Jietlshaiepr's commanding voice came over the circuit.
"Stuzzel, get that Gig in here.  Miakr, drop the charges and get
on the Gig.  Tuerz, take Turner on board the Air/Raft and get on
the Gig.  We'll take Walker in the tank.  Delt, carry the
prisoner to the Gig.  Kfoks, warn the Laramie.  Niedrsha?"
     "Yeah, I'm here, I guess..." came a bewildered voice.
     Her voice softened, "You warn the Bismark.  Just tell them
to get clear of the island as fast as they can.  Ok?"
     "I... got it." he answered.
     Jones swooped into the control building.
     The rest swooped off to obey orders.

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4514
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 16:31:09 EDT
From: c_hamilton%W036_NW@mwmgate1.MITRE.ORG
Subject: Maneuver Drive and Sensors

Sorry if this relates to an old thread, but I just got around to
writing up the message.  This is in reference to the "starship
sensors" thread and the "thrusters are bogus (long live fusion
rockets)" thread.

First, if I were concerned about the passive sensors of potential
hostiles, I would not be cruising around at 3G on fusion rockets.
They must be very easy to detect, especially by passive IR.

Second, if I were a concerned world government, I might not allow
fusion takeoffs from or landings on the world surface.  Damage to the
environment, population, etc.

So, what would be wrong with having two maneuver drive systems in your
spacecraft?  One fusion rocket drive for in-system performance, and
one grav drive (not thrusters) for planetary use.  OK, so this adds
some extra hardware.  But the grav drive just needs to be big enough
to produce the highest G to get you off a world, no more than 2G.  The
two drives could both be used in-system, with a 50% reduction in
efficiency in the grav unit beyond 10 diameters.  And when you don't
want your exhaust lighting up the passive sensors for half a parsec,
cruise on the grav unit (at 50% efficiency).

Of course, if my thinking is skewed, I'm sure you will all let me know.


Chuck Hamilton                                     chamilto@mitre.org

                                   "Two days ago I saw a vehicle that
                                    would 'aul that tanker.  You want
                                    to get outa here..?  talk t' Me."

                                                            - Mad Max
                                                   _The Road Warrior_

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4515
Date: 01 Aug 92 14:18:08 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: fusion rockets etc

In Archive-Message-Number: 4514,
c_hamilton%W036_NW@mwmgate1.MITRE.ORG writes:

>First, if I were concerned about the passive sensors of potential
>hostiles, I would not be cruising around at 3G on fusion rockets.
>They must be very easy to detect, especially by passive IR.

Not necessarily. Fusion rockets don't use all that much fuel, so there's
not that much exhaust. And space is big. There's a lot of IR sources out
there too.

>Second, if I were a concerned world government, I might not allow
>fusion takeoffs from or landings on the world surface.  Damage to the
>environment, population, etc.

Once again, you have to consider the *scale* involved. A fusion rocket
giving 6 gs of acceleration to a *thousand* ton (mass, not
displacement!) would be "burning" 10 *kilograms* of fuel per second.
(assuming the more reasonable Isp of 600,000 instead of the atrociously
higher one in the rules)(note that a higher Isp *reduces* the fuel used)

I think that even at fusion temperatures we can deal with that small an
exhaust. It may burnm *small* holes in the field, but more likely,
they'll have "blast pits" to handle that.

And since the exhaust is hydrogen & helium, it's not exactly a hazard.
It *will* create some nitrogen oxides as it reacts with an oxy-nitrogen
atmosphere.

The only real hazard is the brightness.

>So, what would be wrong with having two maneuver drive systems in your
>spacecraft?  One fusion rocket drive for in-system performance, and
>one grav drive (not thrusters) for planetary use.  OK, so this adds
>some extra hardware.  But the grav drive just needs to be big enough
>to produce the highest G to get you off a world, no more than 2G.  The
>two drives could both be used in-system, with a 50% reduction in
>efficiency in the grav unit beyond 10 diameters.  And when you don't
>want your exhaust lighting up the passive sensors for half a parsec,
>cruise on the grav unit (at 50% efficiency).

Well, you won't light up the sensors for *that* far. And even if you
did, you'd have 1.6 *years* before they noticed.

Heck, at a "mere" million km away, you've got over 3 seconds lag *each
way*. At 1 AU (approx 150 million kn), it'd take 500 seconds for the
heat/light/etc from your drive to get to their sensors. And even longer
for any sort of response to get back...

	"Well, 8 minutes ago, he was *there* and made a course
	adjustment. Now he's running stealthed again. He could be
	anywhere in this area, according to the tacitcal computer... "

	(computer displays plot showing possible locations of ship
	given position of burn and best estimates of original velocity
	and the delta-V from the burn)

Game it out with the vector movement system or the Mayday rules. If you
can't be sure how fast he was moving, nor the magnitude *or direction*
of his velocity change, you can only maker an educated guess. And the
area keeps growing...

Oh yeah, at 1 g that thousand tonner can travel 1 AU in a bit over 48
hours. Doing so, it'll use 288+ tons of fuel. And be travelling at 1732
km/s (about .5% of light speed!)

Don't ask me how he's gonna slow down!


------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4516
Date: 02 Aug 92 12:10:02 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Fusion rockets...

Leonard Erickson:

>Not necessarily. Fusion rockets don't use all that much fuel, so
>there's not that much exhaust. And space is big. There's a lot of IR
>sources out there too.

A million ton battleship (moderately light by MT standards) pulling 3g's
requires 5000Kg/s of fuel, which produces an energy of 9E16 joules.  At
a range of 2000-odd Km, that appears about as bright as the Sun viewed
from Earth-orbit.  At 1AU, it is about 16 times as bright as AlphaCent
viewed from Earth-orbit.  At combat ranges (500,000Km or less), it is
over 1000,000 times as bright as AlphaCent as viewed from Earth (that's
brighter than the moon!).  This will NOT fade into the background!


>Once again, you have to consider the *scale* involved. A fusion rocket
>giving 6 gs of acceleration to a *thousand* ton (mass, not
>displacement!) would be "burning" 10 *kilograms* of fuel per second.
>(assuming the more reasonable Isp of 600,000 instead of the atrociously
>higher one in the rules)(note that a higher Isp *reduces* the fuel
>used)

10Kg/s at Isp 600,000 produces energy equivalent to a 50 KT bomb every
second.   This will NOT produce "*small* holes".  Unless you define
*small* as comparable to Hiroshima or Nagasaki.  Keep in mind that it
takes you 6g rocket 6 seconds to reach 1Km+ altitude.  So you'll dump
the equivalent of a 300 KT bomb on the launch site.  This will not be
dealt with be "blast pits".


						---Steve Higginbotham

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4517
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1992 11:23 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: YAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! :-)

Was gonna send this last night, but the D.U.C.V.A.X was D.E.A.D!
______________
Hi there!

We are experiencing operating difficulties please stand by...

YAHOOOOOOOOOOO!

Hey!  Hey!  Hey!  I finally *finally* *FINALLY* finished what will be the
fifth chapter of the 4.5th Frontier War!  Now for those of you who don't know,
I started writing all this junk back in '88.

Three years ago, I started work on what is now the fifth chapter and got
****STUCK****.  For all intents and purposes, I haven't really added to it
since 1989.  Back Before I even got guest spots on the TML.  Back before
*RICHARD* even *STARTED* the TML PBEM.

I have been Stuck *THAT* *LONG*!!!!!!!
('scuse me while I jump up and down)

	It's done!		It's Done!		IT's DOne!

			It's Done!		It's Done!

				Whoopeeee!!!!!!
		YAhoo!!!!
			(Shriek, Shriek, Scream, Scream)

16000+ words;  102+ Kbytes!  WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, ok, so it still neeeds editing, but the hull is laid out, and the
engines are in place!

Ahhhhh!!!!!

		I may not be Tom Clancy,
		I may not be the Pope,
		But as long as I have Gritty Kitty,
		I shall never mope!

Superciliously yours,

Scott 2G Kellogg
What?  Now I gotta work on Chapter *SIX*?  AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! :-)

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4518
From: David Sansom <david@camscan.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 92 17:08:02 BST
Subject: Fusion rockets...

As a point of interest...the "fusion rocket" principle that is being
discussed seems to be based on a mass-reaction idea (ie chucking stuff out
the back *very* fast).

Fusion power plants in Traveller are considered to be contained fusion
reactors which then power the maneuver drives.  It could be argued therefore
that traveller drives work by an "impulse" mechanism, that is creating a
force (and hence accelaration) action without any accompanying reaction.

This requires you to break the usual Newtonian mechanics but then every law
in physics has its exceptions.

Ships driven by impulse engines would be as "quiet" as their shielding would
allow.  (They would also be as "green" as you could be :-)

Dave Sansom

david@camscan.co.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4519
Date: Tue,  4 Aug 92 10:35:21 -11:00:00
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Traveller the NEW ERA


Hi, I'm new to TML and noticed mention of "the New Era" in a recent
posting.  This has probably been talked to death already so if someon
could point me at the relevant postings then I can get them out of
archive.

I'm only just getting into Mega-Traveller after a long absence from the
original Traveller so I'm not even up on what's been happening in the
Imperium at the moment.

I've just seen a copy of GDW's MYTHUS by Gary Gygax and was wondering if
"the New Era" was going to come out under this new system (I hope not)?

Also, I've got a friend (yes I do have one!) who has been trying to join
TML via the traveller-request path and hasn't received any response.  I
also tried posting it there for him and its all very quiet.  Is there a
problem?  I've been using the new address and nothings bounced back yet.

Bruce...          pihlab @ hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4520
Date: Tue, 4 Aug 92 13:42:07 CET
From: "Bart Van Brabant" <invoker@vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: Beginner

I am not a complete beginner in RPG's, i play spacemaster and AD&D, but
I read your msg's with great joy and want to start MEGATRAVELLER.
Where should I start ??. I will buy the boxed set of course (i go to UK
for it, 1/3 of belgium price i hope). But what else do I need. There are
some nice starships in MT (saw the imperial sourcebook yesterday).
Any information will be gratefully accepted.

2) What is the difference between MT and 2300AD ??


Bart Van Brabant Invoker@vnet.ibm.com (thanks to you i am some knowledge
richer)..They told me the TASK system is somewhat idiotic, but then again,
as a good DM I throw some things out. | even when you try to tie your shoes
you need to do a skill roll ?? Is this true ??

Bye, and thanks again

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4521
Date: 05 Aug 92 03:22:21 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Fusion rockets...

In Archive-Message-Number: 4516, Steve Higginbotham writes:

>A million ton battleship (moderately light by MT standards) pulling
>3g's requires 5000Kg/s of fuel, which produces an energy of 9E16
>joules.  At a range of 2000-odd Km, that appears about as bright as
>the Sun viewed from Earth-orbit.  At 1AU, it is about 16 times as
>bright as AlphaCent viewed from Earth-orbit.  At combat ranges
>(500,000Km or less), it is over 1000,000 times as bright as AlphaCent
>as viewed from Earth (that's brighter than the moon!).  This will NOT
>fade into the background!

Now *subtract* the portion of that that is kinetic energy of the ship
and of the exhaust. Only the remaining energy will be available for
radiating.

>Once again, you have to consider the *scale* involved. A fusion rocket
>giving 6 gs of acceleration to a *thousand* ton (mass, not
>displacement!) would be "burning" 10 *kilograms* of fuel per second.
>(assuming the more reasonable Isp of 600,000 instead of the atrociously
>higher one in the rules)(note that a higher Isp *reduces* the fuel
>used)

10Kg/s at Isp 600,000 produces energy equivalent to a 50 KT bomb every
second.   This will NOT produce "*small* holes".  Unless you define
*small* as comparable to Hiroshima or Nagasaki.  Keep in mind that it
takes you 6g rocket 6 seconds to reach 1Km+ altitude.  So you'll dump
the equivalent of a 300 KT bomb on the launch site.  This will not be
dealt with be "blast pits".

Once again, you are assuming that the energy is "just there". Look upon
it as a plamsa arc torch with a 10 Kg/s flow rate. It'll vaporize the
hell out of anything that gets in the way, but it is *directed* energy
(at least at first).

Compare this with a Saturn 5. The first stage of the Saturn V was good
for quite a few kilotons if it blew. But in a normal launch, the the
exhaust damage wasn't that hard to contain. A fusion rocket with the
same thrust (6 million pounds) would use 10 *pounds* of fuel per
second. The energy release is of the same order of magnituide., it's
just more concentrated. (yes, I picked that thousand ton ship in the
original message *specifcly* because it was "equivalent" to a Saturn 5!)

Stop and think, a 10 kg/sec jet is going to be fairly small. *Easily*
less that 10 meters. More like *one* meter. Especially considering the
exhaust velocity (roughly 2% off lightspeed!). (anybody know enough
plasma physics to rough out an answer? If not, I'll just treat it as
hydrogen gas, and work it out that way...)

It may bore a hole 100 meters deep in the rock of a class X starport,
but the hole will be fairly narrow.

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4522
Date: 05 Aug 92 22:09:41 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: more fusion rockets

Leonard Erickson:
(referring to my last post)

>>10Kg/s at Isp 600,000 produces energy equivalent to a 50 KT bomb every
>>second.   This will NOT produce "*small* holes".  Unless you define
>>*small* as comparable to Hiroshima or Nagasaki.  Keep in mind that it
>>takes you 6g rocket 6 seconds to reach 1Km+ altitude.  So you'll dump
>>the equivalent of a 300 KT bomb on the launch site.  This will not be
>>dealt with by "blast pits".

>Once again, you are assuming that the energy is "just there". Look upon
>it as a plamsa arc torch with a 10 Kg/s flow rate. It'll vaporize the
>hell out of anything that gets in the way, but it is *directed* energy
>(at least at first).

Look on it as a directed energy hydrogen bomb.  It will only be directed
until it hits something (like the ground), then it will begin dispersing.
Which dispersal will have an effect not unlike a nuclear explosion.


>Compare this with a Saturn 5. The first stage of the Saturn V was good
>for quite a few kilotons if it blew. But in a normal launch, the the
>exhaust damage wasn't that hard to contain. A fusion rocket with the
>same thrust (6 million pounds) would use 10 *pounds* of fuel per
>second. The energy release is of the same order of magnituide., it's
>just more concentrated. (yes, I picked that thousand ton ship in the
>original message *specifcly* because it was "equivalent" to a Saturn 5!)

No.  For a rocket of a given thrust, energy release is proportional to Isp.
A Saturn V (with an Isp of 270 more or less) has a power rating of
4.4E10 Watts (about.  7,500,000 Lbs thrust,  BTW, not 6).  A fusion rocket
with Isp 600,000 has a power rating of 9.8E13 Watts.  I personally do not
consider a factor of 2000 to be "the same order of magnitude".


>Stop and think, a 10 kg/sec jet is going to be fairly small. *Easily*
>less that 10 meters. More like *one* meter. Especially considering the
>exhaust velocity (roughly 2% off lightspeed!). (anybody know enough
>plasma physics to rough out an answer? If not, I'll just treat it as
>hydrogen gas, and work it out that way...)
>
>It may bore a hole 100 meters deep in the rock of a class X starport,
>but the hole will be fairly narrow.

Have you ever seen a shaped charge warhead go off?  I have.  It
(theoretically) makes a very small needle jet of plasma.  But after
it hits something hard, it looks just like an HE shell exploding.  If
a fusion jet burns a hole in the ground, the jet will transfer it's
entire kinetic energy to the launch site before it's through.  Which will
look like a small hydrogen bomb.  And what happens after you get more
than 100m in the air?  You give the jet time to diffuse before it hits
something solid, and make the effects on the countryside worse.  Keep in
mind that we are still talking 50KT/s here.  Dumped into the atmosphere
for at least 25 seconds (you actually won't be above 20Km in only 25s).
So you dump energy equivalent to a megaton bomb into the starport.  Frankly,
if the starport can take that kind of abuse routinely, then nuclear attack
should be no big deal to the worlds of the Imperium.

					---Steve Higginbotham

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4523
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 12:05 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Biospheres

	Are there any biologists out there? (other than myself and others at my
site).   Have any of you come up with any particularly interesting alien biota
for your Trav games?  If so I would love to hear about them.
		
				Paveway

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4524
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 12:18 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Hobby horses

  In recent months I have noticed a slight lack of stuff to do with the
roleplaying side of MT/TNE/Trav/2300  Is it because I am a non technically
minded biologist that I get bored by kilobyte raves over this or that mathemati-
cal glitch in the rules?  Does anyone lie awake at night worrying about where
the energy from jumpspace actually GOES? I mean really?
  Does it matter what makes our ships go? surely the fact that they Go will do?
 In fairness tho' if TML is mainly populated by physicists and engineeers then
parhaps it does matter to you, the same way the poorly thought out xenobiology
gets up my nasal passages.   But it would be nice to see some stuff about
roleplaying.......... sometimes.
	Speaking of which.....  Remember the alien romance thread from am while
back?  There is now a pseudobio robot in my party...... go figure.

------------------------------

Bundle: 377
Archive-Message-Number: 4525
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 13:11 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: 4.5th Frontier War Truce

Hi folks,

You all have been patiently putting up with me as I've been posting this
novel.  Well, you are gonna get a break.  I'm moving to San Antonio, TX.
(Any TMLers out there?)  So this will be the last installment I'll post
for a bit.  It concludes the 4th Chapter.

The 5th chapter is in the editing stage and should be ready by the time I
get back on here.  For the moment, I can still be reached at this account,
I'll be here for a bit yet.  I'll send you all the new address when I get
it.

Sooo (putting on the announcers voice from Rocky and Bullwinkle)...
Don't miss our next exciting episode as the crew of the Flamboyant take on
"The Pillars of the Community...  or The 4.5th Columists!"

Scott 2G Kellogg
"Traveller the New Error..."  Freudian Slip made this morning by yours truly...

------------------------------
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submission address will be distributed. The biweekly digest is currently
distributed each Wednesday and Sunday at 9:00pm.

Submissions: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -or- uunet!engrg.uwo.ca!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (James Perkins)

The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 378  4526 06-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4, Part
 378  4527 07-Aug-1992 s3007048@mackay  GDW email gateway... <<  Could the pers
 378  4528 07-Aug-1992 "Beatriz A. Rui  London in 12 hrs. << Hi :
 378  4529 07-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  Re: Hobby horses?  What's this about Ho
 378  4530 07-Aug-1992 Derek Wildstar   Alien Romance << PAVEWAY writes:
 378  4531 08-Aug-1992 PAVEWAY          c <<    The point I am trying to make i
 378  4532 08-Aug-1992 PAVEWAY          Alien romance << My party once annoyed
 378  4533 09-Aug-1992 Mark F. Cook     Why the high physics bandwidth? << In A

------------------------------

Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4526
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 13:12 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: The 4.5th Frontier War (Chapter 4, Part 6)

     DOWN THE WELLES
          or
     Deep in a hole
          - LXI -
     Surgeon Lt. Jones sweated over the operation.  The patient was
a very delicate one and exploratory surgery was dangerous for
patient and surgeon alike.  Three digit numbers clicked by as he
worked.  One zero four...  I'd never make it if I left now...
     Contrary to popular fiction, when facing danger, one's life
does not pass before ones eyes, one just keeps working up until the
bomb explodes or the vehicle crashes or death in whatever of its
myriad forms hands you your bill and will only take cash.
     Zero six three...  Jones was oblivious to all save the
detonator and its attendant systems.  He didn't even notice
Jietlshaiepr's hands on his shoulders as she prepared herself to
teleport them both out.
     Zero two six...  Jietlshaiepr monitored her troop as they
submerged at extreme range, at least Niedrsha would be safe...  If
it was Niedrsha...?
     Zero one four...  She began to muster the last of her psionic
strength...
     Zero zero nine...  Could she teleport them both far enough?
     Zero zero eight...  She had too...
     Zero zero seven...  Pop!  Jones shivered.
     Zero zero seven...  Jones collapsed in mirth.
     Applause sounded behind them.  Jietlshaiepr dove over the
office desk and whirled around with her gauss pistol aimed at the
unknown audience.
     A blank videoscreen was activated on the other side of the
office.  Its camera was facing them as the screen's speaker sounded
the applause.
     "Very good!  Very good!" called a saccharine voice.  Jones
recognized the leader's voice from the mind probe of the pirate.
He exchanged glances with Jietlshaiepr.
     "Glad ya enjoyed it Colonel McNamara." he responded
cheerily.
     "Oh, I did very much Lieutenant... Jones isn't it?" responded
the disembodied sweet malevolence, "What do you do for an encore?"
     "We win." stated Jietlshaiepr simply.
     "Now this IS unusual isn't it?" came the voice with an audible
smirk.  "Zhodani teleport commandoes working with the League of
Suns Naval Intelligence?  Not something you see every day..."
     "No, just every other Thursday." smiled Jones as he began
ransacking the desks and gathering up papers and computer disks.
     "Or when we find a common enemy." added Jietlshaiepr.
     "Me?  Common?" laughed McNamara, "Anyway I suggest you consult
the nearest Consular embassy to find out who the enemy is."
     "You DESTROYED the Consulate embassy on this planet." she
reminded him icily.
     Jones turned and walked out carrying the documents he'd
gathered.
     "Listen." whispered the speaker, "You've just destroyed a
Consular backed secret project.  The League spy just walked out of
that office with enough evidence to link the Consulate to this
operation.  You must kill the spies before they find out and
destroy that evidence, else we are all doomed."
     "Prove it."
     "I can't.  But their sure to try to sabotage your ship.  Kill
them before they kill you.  We'll take their bodies and allow your
ship to escape.  Now, move!  An SDB is on the way to raze that base
in twenty four minutes.  And what ever you do, don't let the
transport ships be damaged!"
          - LXII -
     Miakr started picking up scrambled communications as they
approached in the Gig.  He and Shtam began struggling with the
computer coding systems.
     At last McNamara's voice came out "...out three thousand
credits?  Would that disturb your memory sufficiently?"
     Lt. Jones voice answered, "If yer goin' to insult our
loyalties, ya might at least make it an interestin' insult."
     "Four thousand...  How much do Lieutenants and Ensigns make in
the Navy eh?"
     "More 'an that." answered Smith.
     "All right, seven thousand."
     "Yer not even in the right order o' magnitude." declared Jones
boredly.
     "All right.  Name it then.  Name your own price."
     One could hear Jones smile, "Oh, at least...  twenty
thousand."
     "Done.  But for that much I..."
     "That's twenty thousand fer each of us." amended Smith.
     ...Pause...
     "Very well.  But for that much, I want no one to have heard of
this, including your Zhodani friends."
     "Who said they were our friends?" asked Smith.
     "In addition to your report being... incomplete, I want all
the documents you took returned, any prisoners released, the two
transport ships untouched, AND you must destroy the Zhodani ship."
     "Dragoon would enjoy that." commented Smith.
     "I think that might cost ya something extra." cautioned Jones.
     "Oh? and may I remind you of the captives my men have taken?
What is the count?...  Oh yes... Two thousand six hundred and fifty
one captives, young women between the ages of eleven and twenty
four.  Surely, you don't want them burned down with the island do
you?"
     "'old on a moment." said Jones.
     A radio detonator sat waiting boredly.  Suddenly, it heard its
call to destiny.
     The fuel tanks of the two transport ships wired up by Miakr
and Vole ruptured spilling compressed liquid hydrogen over the
cargo decks and vaporized instantly.  Pressure swelled momentarily
inside the ships then a second charge ignited the inflammable mix
of hydrogen and oxygen.  Both ships became bombs which leaped
skyward scattering the hulls to the winds.
     "NOW it's a deal." confirmed Jones.
     "Not really, you've just lost your biggest bargaining chip,
and my patience."
          - LXIII -
     They quickly got the transmitter's range and bearing.  It lay
on the surface of the water twenty nine kilometers away and
running.  Radar could just barely make out the exposed dorsal
section of a scout ship.
     They took off in the Gig in pursuit, but the ship submerged.
They flew over the prisoners quarters where the mercenaries
captives sat.  They would have to wait evacuation, the Gig was
overcrowded before, now it was doubly so with the unconscious Major
Ollie Sutherland, and the four warbots Miakr had taken control of.
Neither of the two surviving ironclads could carry passengers.
Surely, not even the pirates would...
          - LXIV -
     They monitored the bombardment of the island from the
Flamboyant.  It lasted four hours.  Nothing could have survived.
The SDB was joined in it's mission by the Fanzheinz class trader.
The island was leveled.
     Two thousand, six hundred and fifty one...
          - LXV -
     The League of Suns party was meekly disarmed and under guard.
Smith worked on setting Sutherland up for interrogation.  Jones and
Jietlshaiepr got to work treating the wounded.
     Lt. Dragoon was only lightly wounded.  A laser had seared away
the armor on her abdomen leaving third degree burns.  There was a
similar burn on her left thigh.
     Pvt. Walker was more seriously hurt.  A section of her left
arm had been literally burned away.  A first rate hospital would
probably have removed the remains of arm and started regeneration
techniques.  The Flamboyant had good facilities but nothing that
could start a treatments like that.
     "We'll just have to try the old fashioned way." mumbled
Jietlshaiepr.
     Turner was dead, but her body could be used.  Jones didn't
bother giving it a second thought.  "Right, take what ya need if
the tissue type's compatible.  I may need some tissue myself fer
skin grafting."
     They got to work.  Dragoon insisted on a local anesthetic to
watch Jones.  She also insisted that the burn on her abdomen be
left ungrafted:  she liked the pattern.
     Slowly, Jietlshaiepr rebuilt Walker's arm.  The entire left
biceps was gone as was brachial artery and a good section of nerve,
but Turner's tissue type proved compatible.  Bone grafting proved
unnecessary as the humerus was intact.  When it was over,
Jietlshaiepr and Jones collapsed.
          - LXVI -
     Jietlshaiepr staggered through the door to her darkened
stateroom.  Niedrsha sat on the side of the bed staring at his
hands.  She watched him closely for a moment.  He was a full
eighteen centimeters taller than before...  His face was...
changing... It looked as though someone had grafted his head onto
Drert's body. She stepped quietly to him and took his hand.  His
hands were larger... the veins and tendons less distinct... maybe
a bit more hair on the back.  What about the rest of him?...  What
about his mind?
     Niedrsha was totally drained:  as though some one had switched
off all the emotions in his brain with the casual attitude of
flicking a light switch.  He stared down at his hands not wanting
to meet her eyes.
     Finally, it was he who broke the silence.  "I pulled Drert out
of the armor.  He's ready for burial..."
     "I'm sorry." was all she could manage.
     "I got a good look at 'em when I pulled the armor off." He
looked up with scared eyes.  "It's *My* body that's... dead.  But
I'm here...  This is his...  I'm... him?"
     She sat next to him and pulled his head to her shoulder.  She
looked closely at him.  He was right.  All the subtle unique things
about his body had changed...  More heavily muscled...  Slightly
more hirsute...  but it was Niedrsha's head that leaned on her
shoulder.
     Slowly, through the fog, he realized she was shaking.
     He shifted and held her closely, she continued to shake.
Dimly, he realized his shoulder was growing wet.
     "What...?"
     "Everyone...  Dead.  Drert...  Turner...  Crulley...  The
Pasadena...  The Weehawken...  The Shoolist...  Two thousand
girls... Two *thousand*!..." Her voice dropped, "Never mind the
three million they killed with their virus..."
     She looked him in the eye with tears on her face.  "And...
I... nearly lost... *You*..."
     She drew a half sobbed breath, "Are you really Niedrsha?"
     She clung tightly to him as she sobbed herself to sleep.  What
seemed hours later, Niedrsha numbly realized he was on the verge of
unconsciousness from fatigue.  "Hmmm.  I'm exhausted.  I suppose I
should sleep."  He fell asleep with Jiet's question rattling around
in his (or was it Drert's?) brain.
          - LXVII -
     Slowly, they brought Major Ollie Sutherland to consciousness.
Jones read his mind as he came back inside the sensory deprivation
chamber.
     Anger...  Aggression...  Hate...  Kill...  seeped from the
semiconscious mind as it rose toward full consciousness.  Suddenly,
all went blank.  Ollie had put up a psi shield.
     "Well, it explains 'is lack of wounds." sighed Jones, "'e must
be able te regenerate 'imself psionically."
     "Ok." nodded Jietlshaiepr, "He's psionic.  Well, he's not a
teleport, or he'd not be here.  The question is, does he know any
other psionic disciplines?"
          - LXVIII -
     An hour later, Vole reported that Ollie's shield was down.
Jones read his mind.  A picture came through, a picture of the
inside of the Gig where he was standing.
     "All right he's clairvoyant." nodded Smith.  "That'll ruin our
sensory deprivation work."
     Jones shook his head.  "Not necessarily.  Might take longer,
bu' surely the deprivation'll wear 'im down regardless."
          - LXIX -
     A neural activity sensor was left pointed at Ollie.  The
moment he lowered his shield and showed on the detector, a telepath
was there to read his mind.  Jietlshaiepr, Smith and Jones worked
in four hour shifts.  Every three or four hours the neural activity
sensor went off.  A picture began to emerge:  the Gig...  the
ship...  the bridge... the engine room...  the hold...  the
turrets...  the Vipers in their bays...
     It was then that Lt. Jones suggested putting a guard on the
fighter bays.
          - LXX -
     It was near the end of Ens. Smith's watch when the sensor went
off again.  Stuzzel looked over at her boredly.  He was guarding
her.  The Flamboyant crew hadn't totally believed that Smith and
Jones had been trying to fool whoever had been on the other side of
the radio conversation.  She looked into a mind that was full of
anger and hate and was gripping someone by the throat.
     Suddenly, her consciousness was fading.  She reeled over into
the chair she'd just stood up from.  Stuzzel dropped his ACR and
clutched his own throat.
     As she lost conciousness, she saw the low berth open of its
own accord and Major Ollie Sutherland step out.
          - LXXI -
     Miakr was bored.  He'd been standing in the corridor outside
the lower fighter bay for five hours and was *bored*.  One of the
captured warbots could do the job very easily if he could readjust
the command recognition programming and the recognition program...
fairly easy stuff but it tends to take ones whole attentio...
     An iris valve opened.  Ah, company...
     ACR slugs caught him as he turned.  The gauss pistol spat in
reply but shock and pain spoiled his aim as he fell to the deck.
     Alarms began to blare.  A minute later, Lt. Jones was leaning
over him examining the wounds as Shtam went for the fighter bay
hatch.  Already one could hear the bay flooding with water as the
fighter was prepared for release.
     Shtam punched the intercom.  "He's escaping in Viper number
two.  Kfoks, launch in number one immediately.  We've got to get
the Flamboyant powered up and ready for anything.  All hands:
battle stations."  He turned and ran to his engines.
          - LXXII -
     Kfoks ran his fingers over the Viper's console.  "Bridge, give
me emergency starting power!"  The power lines surged with the
power necessary for a powered kindle fire in the fighter's fusion
plant.  Quickly, the plant reached threshold and Kfoks hit the
starter.  "Lucky he took Stuzzel's Viper, Tuerz always keeps his
ship preflighted for emergencies.  Bless his minescule, paranoid,
psychopathic heart!"
     The cables dropped automatically as Kfoks called for release.
Water poured in over the Viper and the upper hatch opened.  Slowly,
the Viper rose from the bay into the black waters.  The tiny
fighter was blind.  None of her sensors worked underwater unless
you counted landing lights as sensors.
     "Well, I can't talk to the Flamboyant for directions, but he
wouldn't be sticking around down here anyway..."
     He pushed for full power and began to rise slowly as the power
plant rose to meet the demand.  By the time the plant was at
capacity, he could see the surface of the ocean overhead.  He burst
from the water like a flying fish and sparkled in the sun.  The
Viper opened her eyes.
     "Tally ho!" The sensors picked out the fleeing target.
Bearing:  nine six degrees.  Speed:  One point oh five kilometers
per second.  Range:  Fifty two kilometers.
     Quickly, Kfoks line up his target lock on radar.  Incoming
radar pulses on me!...  He flipped on the EMS jammer and threw the
Viper into a series of spiralling zig zags away from the
illuminating radar.  Quickly he was free from the searchlight and
returned his concentration to pursuit and attack.
     Radar lock...  now...  Ladar...  Missile away!...
     The missile blazed in on the fleeing target which dipped and
screamed off wildly dodging to the south and then nose down and
went for the deck.  The missile sped past close but missed.  The
enemy Viper rolled over and resumed its flight.
     The radio squawked, "Any ships in orbit, this is Major
Sutherland.  I've escaped from the enemy vessel, requesting
assistance.  Over."
     "Roger, Major we're reading you.  What do you need?  Over."
     Kfoks kicked on the radio jammer and lined up on target.  A
second missile sped away on course to the fleeing Viper.  With the
radio jammer on he was screaming his location, but if that bastard
managed to call in fire from orbit...
     Sutherland dodged and pulled up sharply into the clouds.  The
missile sped after him.
     Kfoks watched the clouds as he flew towards them and waited.
No sign of impact.  On radar the targets converged.  Kfoks fired
his third missile as he blazed toward the targets.
     The second missile blazed by the twisting craft.  Then
Sutherland spun her around to bear on Kfoks.
     The laser sensor horn blared.  Damn, Ollie had a good lock on
him.  A piercing sound went through Kfoks ears:  Enemy missile
launch.
     He rolled the controls into a twisting turn that fought the
inertial compensators.  The Viper responded like a thing alive
while the missile homed in on him.
     Kfoks cut the jammers and put the Viper on its tail, climbing
straight up at a kilometer a second.  He threw it into a corkscrew
that sent the missile off.  It flew by fifty meters from the
twisting fighter.
     Kfoks flipped his charger back toward his adversary.  Radar
sweep negative.  Vrassssh!  Have I lost him?  He spun back on
Ollie's previous bearing:  niner six.
     He peeled back the Viper's eye lids and checked the sky.
Nothing...  Nothing...  Nothing...  Nothing...
     A smudge...?  A faint trace ran across the radar screen.  IR
made it out as about three thousand degrees...  Falling fast...
     Finally, the wreckage fell into the sea.
          - LXXIII -
     Kfoks met Tuerz on his way back.  Tuerz had taken the Gig off
in pursuit shortly after Kfoks but had been left behind by the
airfoil streamlining of the Vipers and the slow power build up of
the larger power plant.
     "Are you sure you got the bastard?  Over."
     "Negative, I didn't see it hit, but I picked up what looked
like falling wreckage.  Couldn't have survived if I hit him.
Over."
     "You'd better have!  He's killed Stuzzel!  His throat's been
crushed!"
          - LXXIV -
     Sensor readings by the Flamboyant were more definite.  The
target had been hit.  They were also certain that the two SDBs and
Fanzheinz class trader were positioning themselves in orbit over
the Flamboyant just inside laser range.
     Then they picked it up.  On the other side of Welles a fusion
plant was climbing to full power; the scout ship they'd spotted on
the surface was lifting off.
     At Smith's suggestion they went over every system of the ship.
Ollie was a clairvoyant telekinetic and had had access to every
part of the ship.  God knows what mischief he might have left
behind.
          - LXXV -
     Jietlshaiepr came to the lounge still in her bathrobe.  The
escape had started during her off watch.  Shtam made his report
first.  The main circuit breakers to the laser batteries had been
pulled.  Hap hazard sabotage, but enough to silence the lasers and
easy enough for the weak strength of low power telekinesis.
     Gresha had uncovered much nastier stuff.  One of the missile
tube indicator lights had been shorted along with the outer door.
If they had opened the tube to reload, the ship would have been
flooded.
     Ens. Smith had rapidly recovered from being throttled, but
Stuzzel's larynx had been crushed.  Miakr had taken two slugs in
the chest which Lt. Jones and Vole were removing at the moment.
     "All in all it could have been much worse." admitted
Jietlshaiepr, "Poor Stuzzel, what a bastard..."
          - LXXVI -
     Gresha looked up from the sensors.  "I was right Jiet." her
tail wagged with pride, "They're headed out.  All four ships
proceeding to jump point at one G acceleration."
     Jietlshaiepr put her arm around Gresha's shoulders and gazed
into the sensor read out.  "Zhdantva!" she breathed, "It's over!"
     The pirate flotilla docked with the SDBs at jump point.  The
SDB power plants throttled back to minimum and were lost on their
cometary courses.  Then the two starships jumped.
          - LXXVII -
     The Flamboyant made a brief appearance at Welles Starport.
Captain Billy the third, aged fourteen or fifteen, gave the crew
faint praise for their efforts.  It seemed that the Laramie and the
Bismark had already reported the outcome of the battle.  The
planetary ruler didn't seem to care overly much who had won the
battle, just as long as he didn't have to worry about it.
     Now that Fleet Admiral Colorado had died aboard the Pasadena,
the Captain had lost his regent.  The next in line was the
hereditary Fourth Officer of the Warsaw, Commander Loren
Farnsworthy, captain of the Bismark.
     Fortunately, Commander Farnsworthy was far more capable than
the hereditary Captain.  She would see to the reconstruction of the
planet, and promised Jietlshaiepr that The League of Suns was not
the only place help would be appealed to.  The Zhodani Consulate
Embassy would be appealed to.  The Droyne crew would stay as
unofficial Consular representatives while awaiting the return of
the Chekbas.  They were, after all, Consular citizens, and the
Droyne cruiser would carry the formal request for aid to the sector
capitol at Massina.
     The League of Suns, however, was much closer and could render
aid more swiftly and would be very interested in strengthening its
borders.  Still, Farnsworthy did not seem to be one to let her
planet be annexed by friend or foe (all the better for the distant
Consulate.)
     The captured grav tank was handed over to the locals as a
joint gift from the League and Consulate lest their antagonists
return.  It could not be carried by the Flamboyant, though the
captured Air/Raft hardly made up for the loss of the Viper and the
VIXEN.
          - LXXVIII -
     "Well, whot's yer next move, Jietlshaiepr?" asked Lt. Jones.
     "Oh, we're going to see if anything is salvageable from the
VIXEN, if we can find it.  It was left adrift.  It may still have
some useful material aboard."
     "An' then?" prompted Ens. Smith.
     "I don't really think you need to know that." smiled
Jietlshaiepr, "Mostly I'll be glad to leave before your rescue
party can show up and detain us.  But after we leave I see no
reason for you to know where we go.
     "It has a been pleasure working with you," she continued while
shaking hands with them, "but now I must leave."
     Jones smiled.  "Till we meet again..."
     He paused and left the last words unspoken, "On Zylath..."

------------------------------
Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4527
From: s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au
Subject: GDW email gateway...
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 9:51:21 GMT

	Could the person who would carry email from me to Loren Wiseman
of GDW please email me so that I can get your email address, and discuss
things with you?

Regards,

	Mike.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet:	s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au
Compuserve:	>internet:s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au

                     "I have a cunning plan..."	- Baldrick (Black Adder)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Michael Glew - School of Math Phys Comp & Elec - Macquarie University
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4528
Date: Fri,  7 Aug 1992 10:39:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Beatriz A. Ruiz" <br1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: London in 12 hrs.

Hi :
I will be travelling in two weeks to Asia. However, in my way coming
back I'll stop in London for 12 hours. Any suggestions about what should
I see in 12 hours? Best (cheapest) way of moving around (subway, bus,
taxi)?, new places that are worth to see ?
Any suggestions reply to br1r@andrew.cmu.edu. Thanks a lot,

Beatriz.

------------------------------

Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4529
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 14:37 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Re: Hobby horses?  What's this about Hobby horses?

PAVEWAY sez:
}Is it because I
}am a non technically minded biologist that I get bored by
}kilobyte raves over this or that mathematical glitch in the
}rules?  Does anyone lie awake at night worrying about where the
}energy from jumpspace actually GOES? I mean really?
}    Does it matter what makes our ships go? surely the fact
}that they Go will do?
}    In fairness tho' if TML is mainly populated by physicists
}and engineeers then parhaps it does matter to you, the same way
}the poorly thought out xenobiology gets up my nasal passages.
}But it would be nice to see some stuff about
}roleplaying..  sometimes.

Hum.

Well, speaking as a physics oriented sci type m'sef, I can
speculate as to why we get into physics more often than we do
into psionics, and even exo-biology, exo-psychology, chemistry,
engineering.  Because, in the above fields we have too many
variables to deal with.  A ref can always arbitrarily come up
with a wierd biology that 'does THIS neato thing'.  We can
imagine big nasty semi-intelligent beasties with acid for blood
that some how just happen to require humans as a host to
reproduce in.
     Ok, that's an extreme case.  But you see, the ref can always
come up with a wierd chemistry or biochemistry or even
engineering solution that has X,Y,Z strange effects.  Physics is
much more fundamental.  There are a lot fewer laws to deal with,
and it is much easier to determine that effects R,S,T are
possible, but U,V,W are not.  The bets get hedged when you head
into the other areas.

But, that is not to say that we can't or shouldn't talk about
wierd bio-chemistry and other stuff.  Indeed sometimes us poor
non-bio types can get a lot of neato ideas from hearing about a
particularly weird animal... I remember a discussion off line a
while back on some kind of wierd frog that carried it's young
tadpoles around *Under* the skin of the female.  When they were
'born' hundreds of these lil suckers ripped their way out through
the skin of the female.  BLEAH!  ICK!  :-P

This is the sort of thing that inspires refs ta come up with el
wierdo creatures to make our poor players wake up screaming the
night after the game...  So, Paveway, if you got any ideas like
that I'd *love* to hear 'em... |->

But, your question was actually about role playing.  Hmm... Well,
I've been trying to supply a good story with the role playing,
what exactly is it you want to know?

}    Speaking of which.....  Remember the alien romance thread
}from am while back?  There is now a pseudobio robot in my
}party...... go figure.

A pseudo-bio in an alien romance?  Wierd...  Wierd...  I assume
that it is a pseudo-bio of a human, but if not, boy!  That cud be
REAL weird...  |->

2G Scott

------------------------------

Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4530
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 22:44:42 EDT
From: wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu (Derek Wildstar)
Subject: Alien Romance

PAVEWAY writes:
}kilobyte raves over this or that mathematical glitch in the
}rules?  Does anyone lie awake at night worrying about where the
}energy from jumpspace actually GOES? I mean really?
}    Does it matter what makes our ships go? surely the fact
}that they Go will do?

When I have played Traveller in the past, it has typically been with
people who have Engineering, Math, Computer Science, or Physics
backgrounds.  These are the sorts of questions my players ask, and so I
have had to come up with answers.  In many cases, the answers have
needed carefull thought, because the players will try to misuse the
technology in the *WORST* ways.

On the other hand, role-playing is really just an advanced form of story
telling.  As a referee and as a player, you do what you have to to
suspend disbelief for a little while.  In my case, breaking the laws of
physics brings the players jarring back to Earth in the worst way.

The people you play with may be quite different; after all, most
science-fiction novels are not so rigorous with the laws of physics as
many TML-ers are with Traveller.  If your players don't care, then gloss
over these things and concentrate on the things that do interest them,
and provide detail where its needed (presumably, alien biology and
ecosystems).

You mention that the Traveller ecosystem generation system (such as it
is) is hosed.  In what ways, and are there any easy (or even
not-so-easy) ways to fix it?

}    In fairness tho' if TML is mainly populated by physicists
}and engineeers then parhaps it does matter to you, the same way
}the poorly thought out xenobiology gets up my nasal passages.
}But it would be nice to see some stuff about
}roleplaying..  sometimes.

Well, "role-playing" is kind of vague.  Do you have any specific
questions or topics you would like to concentrate on?

As a rule of thumb, the players will tend to follow the referee's lead.
If the referee starts acting in character, the players will tend to
follow, as in the examples below:

LACK of ROLEPLAYING:
Ref: Finally find the right office; you walk in, step up to the clerk's
     desk.  He looks tired and irritable.  He asks you what you want.
You: I tell him.

MUCH BETTER:
Ref: You finally find the right office.  You walk in.  There is a clerk
     sitting at the desk, doing a crossword puzzle.
     <looks up from table, at players, with a tired frown>
     <irritably> "What do you want?"
You: We need a waiver for landing clearance at the downport.

Other techniques I have used include an AT award at the end of every
gaming session for "best role-playing", as decided by a vote of the
players (referee reserves the right to break ties or otherwise
intervene).

}    Speaking of which.....  Remember the alien romance thread
}from am while back?  There is now a pseudobio robot in my
}party...... go figure.

Could be interesting, especially if the robot has highly advanced
emotion simulation programming.  If the 'bot is a player character, I'd
probably let him or her get away with anything the player could
ratinalize to me.  References should probably include the very early
science-fiction story "Helen O'Loy", some of Isaac Asimov's robot
novels, and of course, "Star Trek: The Next Generation".

wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                 Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                         in the Far Future

------------------------------

Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4531
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 14:16 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: c

   The point I am trying to make is that some of the discourses on some of
the more technical aspects of the MT universe do tend to get a wee bit, well...
nit-picking and dare I say it longwinded.  MT is an SF game and as such it has
some of the standard props of Sci-Fi eg. FTL in the form of the jump drive and
a reactionless drive, your friend and mine the Thruster plate drive.  Now from
my days as a failed A-level physics student I recall that these devices are in
the light of most accepted theory Utter Tosh.  The thing is that there seems to
be a lot of time and energy going into trying to come up with ideas for said
props that conform to our current view of reality, Why?  Is it because for a
physicist it is a grate on the nerves to see bad pseudo-scientific gobbledygook
used to explain the Drives, and you want to explain it better yourselves?
   Why not just accept the drives for what they are.... necessary impossiblities
?   Scott 2G makes the point that the long physics discussions serve to clarify
the effects of technologies.  (I hope thats the point you were conveying I ain't
too perceptive today! :) )      This is all well and fine but I have never had
that much trouble with the technology in MT needing over much explaination,
You have a jump drive that you put fuel in and push a button.... fine
The M-drive takes fuel in one end and pushes you along..... Why gild the lily?
  I am lucky though as not one of my party is an Engineer or a Physicist and
therefore there is no-one to really cringe at the howlers in the 'physics' used
to explain the drives.
	In reply to the point about Physics being easier to discuss than Biology
due to the comparative complexity of the latter....
 I franky disagree,  life is complex, yes  BUT is IMHO easier to deal with in a
SF game than physics.  The Physics in SF deal with acheiving either the
impossible or doing stuff we can't manage Yet.  Xenobiology is easier surely? we
have seen what life can do on a planet that can support it (given enough time)
and given the universal rules that govern life we can speculate on what we'd
find on another world.  I always had my doubts about the Alien in ALIEN, but
if there is a niche to fill then evolution will most likely fill it.  2300ad
is quite good with its Xenobiology, the fact that there is a left or right hand
version of molecules with 'assymetric' carbon skeletons means that the proteins
and sugars on alien worlds have a 50% chance of not being any use to a terran
lifeform.  Consider the problems the Vilani had with the life on Vland, I reckon
that they had it as good as you can expect.
  I shall start throwing the odd alien into the TML for people to peruse as well
 as a few more whinges on what I don't like about the MT universe.

		PAVEWAY

PS. Scott? How much space on a disk would you entire 4.5th frontier war
story take up?   And what format is it in?

------------------------------

Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4532
Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 14:36 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Alien romance

My party once annoyed a certain imperial personage sufficiently to be worthy
of being the target of a terminator, basically a TL15 pseudobio with AI.
  The T-1000 was stopped in its attempt by a 3rd person who reprogrammed it
with the Algorithms used in the ships main computer.  Keith (the computer AI)
was rather please with actually having a corporal body that did not displace
2000tons and could also juggle, eat, smell, dance and (in the case of one young
lady in the crew) find out how real the pseudo actually was.  The AI still had
much of its old programming and therefore defered to organics as a reflex.  The
crew were a pretty liberal lot and made it an official human.  The heuristics
in the program made the change in outlook possible.   The crew were surprised
when the droid spent all 'his' booty share on becoming a 'her'!  A new set of
cloned skin.... some extra width on the hips and some work with an orbital
sander on the face et viola! Voici Karan!  Ok the lass is still 6'2" and built
like Arnie but hell so was Taura Satana!
  One of the crew asked how well she had been converted over..... the poor man
was excused duty as a consequence.
  The crew contained some people who felt uncomfortable with a synthetic that
acted like a human..... this 'upset' Karan.  Later that year an aslan joined the
crew and she began to load up software on that race to act as a liason.  The
fact that aslan accept one for the pattern of ones thought not for your physical
nature has made Karan begin to 'become' aslan.  She does have emotions....
   As I said   Go figure....

------------------------------

Bundle: 378
Archive-Message-Number: 4533
From: Mark F. Cook <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Why the high physics bandwidth?
Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 22:03:05 PDT

In Archive-Message-Number 4529, Scott Kellogg <KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU>
writes:

> Well, speaking as a physics oriented sci type m'sef, I can
> speculate as to why we get into physics more often than we do
> into psionics, and even exo-biology, exo-psychology, chemistry,
> engineering.  Because, in the above fields we have too many
> variables to deal with.  A ref can always arbitrarily come up
> with a wierd biology that 'does THIS neato thing'.  We can
> imagine big nasty semi-intelligent beasties with acid for blood
> that some how just happen to require humans as a host to
> reproduce in.
>      Ok, that's an extreme case.  But you see, the ref can always
> come up with a wierd chemistry or biochemistry or even
> engineering solution that has X,Y,Z strange effects.  Physics is
> much more fundamental.  There are a lot fewer laws to deal with,
> and it is much easier to determine that effects R,S,T are
> possible, but U,V,W are not.  The bets get hedged when you head
> into the other areas.

Sigh.  Spoken like a "Physics. The one *true* faith." sci type.

While it's true that a ref can "always arbitrarily come up
with a wierd biology that 'does THIS neato thing'.", it's even
more likely that this self-same ref will stick his/her foot in their
mouth if they don't have at least a marginal chem/bio background.
(Note that I have the same problem when I attempt handwaving about
drives and powerplants, so don't assume that physics is the topic of
choice just because it's such a 'pure' science.)  As for the other
fields (exo-biology, exo-psychology, chemistry) having too many
variables, they're no worse than physics, you just don't have nearly
as much training in them.  It's the same for me and physics.  I bailed
out after three terms and thanked God that I was still alive to talk
about it.  (Besides, as I recall, psychology/psychiatry isn't a
science anyway.  It's just a matter of "common sense and decency",
right? :^/)

The REAL reason that physics gets discussed in such depth and to the
exclusion of most other topics is twofold.

For the first reason, the following two quotes are appropriate:

	"Defend from the high ground."
			- Charlemagne

	"Always attack from a position of strength."
			- Sun Tzu

There are a disproportionately large number of TML'ers with strong
physics backgrounds, and it's always more fun to argue about a subject
that you think you know better than the other guy.  On the other hand,
those TML members with any training in the life sciences are few and
far between (Eric Sergienko and myself being two exceptions).  There
are obviously enough people interested in physics as it applies to
Traveller to keep the conversations going, even when it's boring the
rest of us to tears.  On the other hand, when a chem/bio point of
discussion comes up, there's Eric, and then there's me.  Consequently,
the two of us resort either to private E-mail or a plain old phone call.

Second, GDW/DGP have made highly visible and, for the most part, abysmal
attempts at providing rules for using TL-15 physics (indirectly) in the
game (jump drives, inertia dampers, artificial gravity, et.al.), which
leave a *boatload* of high-visibility targets for people with good
physics backgrounds to rip apart.  But except for a badly flawed set of
planetary system design rules, and a pitifully sketchy 'random critter'
creation table, the chem and bio folks don't even have anything to try
to fix.  (Note that I'm also including botany, geology, and a pile of
other fields of study too lengthy to list.)  We have to start from
scratch.  This is a LOT more work than most of us have time for.

> But, that is not to say that we can't or shouldn't talk about
> wierd bio-chemistry and other stuff.  Indeed sometimes us poor
> non-bio types can get a lot of neato ideas from hearing about a
> particularly weird animal... I remember a discussion off line a
> while back on some kind of wierd frog that carried it's young
> tadpoles around *Under* the skin of the female.  When they were
> 'born' hundreds of these lil suckers ripped their way out through
> the skin of the female.  BLEAH!  ICK!  :-P

That's just the tip of the iceberg where Rana (African Treefrog family)
is concerned.  Read "Jurassic Park" (Crichton) or "Legacy of Herot"
(Niven) for some real chillers about frog-like critters, or similar
effects.  If you want wierd animals, you don't even have to leave Earth
to find creatures that can lift 30 times their own weight, spit live
steam, excrete caustic chemicals, or survive being frozen in a block
of ice for over three months.  That's plenty wierd enough without
inventing space monsters with heretofore unheard of biologies.

The bottom line is, it doesn't matter whether it's physics, biology,
chemistry, or pottery.  If you attempt to 'hand-wave' in a subject
where you know less than one (or more) of your players, you shouldn't
be surprised when you get bit in the ass by you spontaneous invention.
This is why I keep pushing that tired old saw "research your area of
pseudo-expertise" to death before the game starts.  It can save you
a lot of grief.  (A variety of E-mail from earlier this summer would
suggest that the approach of "knowing what you're talking about" is
not a popular one with some TML members.)

				"Oh, great!  My secret weapon is PMS."
					- _Buffy,_The_Vampire_Slayer_
	- Mark C.

------------------------------
This is a passively moderated mailing list. All messages sent to the
submission address will be distributed. The biweekly digest is currently
distributed each Wednesday and Sunday at 9:00pm.

Submissions: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -or- uunet!engrg.uwo.ca!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (James Perkins)

The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 379  4534 10-Aug-1992 Adrian Hurt      TML nightly: Msgs 4530-4532 V43#5 (fwd)
 379  4535 10-Aug-1992 Adrian Hurt      Physics and an apology << First, sorry
 379  4536 10-Aug-1992 Mike Metlay      Alien Romance << Well, I'm sort of inco
 379  4537 10-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  4.5th Frontier War Length << How long i
 379  4538 10-Aug-1992 Cynthia Higginb  Congrats and Why not discuss bio? <<  F
 379  4539 11-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  Stories on the TML (romance) << Hey fol
 379  4540 11-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  Neato Bio stuff << I sed:
 379  4541 11-Aug-1992 Juanna B. A. Sl  Roleplaying, physics nerds, etc << ASPO
 379  4542 11-Aug-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  RADAR as a weapon << I'm currently play
 379  4543 11-Aug-1992 bryan borich     Challenge #64 <<     Challenge #64 shou
 379  4544 12-Aug-1992 Leonard Erickso  Biology << I once got irritated by a *s
 379  4545 12-Aug-1992 Leonard Erickso  more bio stuff << Catie Helm writes:
 379  4546 12-Aug-1992 Richard Johnson  A Little Voyeur << With regard to Mike
 379  4547 12-Aug-1992 KELLOGG@DUCVAX.  Last message out of Auburn/Spinward Mar
 379  4548 13-Aug-1992 grue@cs.uq.oz.a  life sciences << hi,
 379  4549 13-Aug-1992 James T Perkins  Hi folks << Well, it's about time I sti

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4534
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: TML nightly: Msgs 4530-4532 V43#5 (fwd)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 9:37:42 BST

>
>
>
> wildstar@moeng2.morgan.edu
> - --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                                                  Science-Fiction Adventure
>                                                          in the Far Future
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Bundle: 378
> Archive-Message-Number: 4531
> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 14:16 GMT
> From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
> Subject: c
>
>    The point I am trying to make is that some of the discourses on some of
> the more technical aspects of the MT universe do tend to get a wee bit, well...
> nit-picking and dare I say it longwinded.  MT is an SF game and as such it has
> some of the standard props of Sci-Fi eg. FTL in the form of the jump drive and
> a reactionless drive, your friend and mine the Thruster plate drive.  Now from
> my days as a failed A-level physics student I recall that these devices are in
> the light of most accepted theory Utter Tosh.  The thing is that there seems to
> be a lot of time and energy going into trying to come up with ideas for said
> props that conform to our current view of reality, Why?  Is it because for a
> physicist it is a grate on the nerves to see bad pseudo-scientific gobbledygook
> used to explain the Drives, and you want to explain it better yourselves?
>    Why not just accept the drives for what they are.... necessary impossiblities
> ?   Scott 2G makes the point that the long physics discussions serve to clarify
> the effects of technologies.  (I hope thats the point you were conveying I ain't
> too perceptive today! :) )      This is all well and fine but I have never had
> that much trouble with the technology in MT needing over much explaination,
> You have a jump drive that you put fuel in and push a button.... fine
> The M-drive takes fuel in one end and pushes you along..... Why gild the lily?
>   I am lucky though as not one of my party is an Engineer or a Physicist and
> therefore there is no-one to really cringe at the howlers in the 'physics' used
> to explain the drives.
> 	In reply to the point about Physics being easier to discuss than Biology
> due to the comparative complexity of the latter....
>  I franky disagree,  life is complex, yes  BUT is IMHO easier to deal with in a
> SF game than physics.  The Physics in SF deal with acheiving either the
> impossible or doing stuff we can't manage Yet.  Xenobiology is easier surely? we
> have seen what life can do on a planet that can support it (given enough time)
> and given the universal rules that govern life we can speculate on what we'd
> find on another world.  I always had my doubts about the Alien in ALIEN, but
> if there is a niche to fill then evolution will most likely fill it.  2300ad
> is quite good with its Xenobiology, the fact that there is a left or right hand
> version of molecules with 'assymetric' carbon skeletons means that the proteins
> and sugars on alien worlds have a 50% chance of not being any use to a terran
> lifeform.  Consider the problems the Vilani had with the life on Vland, I reckon
> that they had it as good as you can expect.
>   I shall start throwing the odd alien into the TML for people to peruse as well
>  as a few more whinges on what I don't like about the MT universe.
>
> 		PAVEWAY
>
>
>  PS. Scott? How much space on a disk would you entire 4.5th frontier war
> story take up?   And what format is it in?
>
> 	
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Bundle: 378
> Archive-Message-Number: 4532
> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 14:36 GMT
> From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
> Subject: Alien romance
>
> My party once annoyed a certain imperial personage sufficiently to be worthy
> of being the target of a terminator, basically a TL15 pseudobio with AI.
>   The T-1000 was stopped in its attempt by a 3rd person who reprogrammed it
> with the Algorithms used in the ships main computer.  Keith (the computer AI)
> was rather please with actually having a corporal body that did not displace
> 2000tons and could also juggle, eat, smell, dance and (in the case of one young
> lady in the crew) find out how real the pseudo actually was.  The AI still had
> much of its old programming and therefore defered to organics as a reflex.  The
> crew were a pretty liberal lot and made it an official human.  The heuristics
> in the program made the change in outlook possible.   The crew were surprised
> when the droid spent all 'his' booty share on becoming a 'her'!  A new set of
> cloned skin.... some extra width on the hips and some work with an orbital
> sander on the face et viola! Voici Karan!  Ok the lass is still 6'2" and built
> like Arnie but hell so was Taura Satana!
>   One of the crew asked how well she had been converted over..... the poor man
> was excused duty as a consequence.
>   The crew contained some people who felt uncomfortable with a synthetic that
> acted like a human..... this 'upset' Karan.  Later that year an aslan joined the
> crew and she began to load up software on that race to act as a liason.  The
> fact that aslan accept one for the pattern of ones thought not for your physical
> nature has made Karan begin to 'become' aslan.  She does have emotions....
>    As I said   Go figure....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TML Biweekly
> ******************
>


- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian   |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4535
From: Adrian Hurt <adrian@cs.heriot-watt.ac.uk>
Subject: Physics and an apology
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 10:00:50 BST

First, sorry about that last attempt.  That's what comes of having a
mailer which sends off a message when you hit "return", and using it
first thing on Monday morning.  Wipe egg off face, try again. :-)

PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK> writes:
>					MT is an SF game and as such it has
> some of the standard props of Sci-Fi eg. FTL in the form of the jump drive
> and a reactionless drive, your friend and mine the Thruster plate drive.
> Now from my days as a failed A-level physics student I recall that these
> devices are in  the light of most accepted theory Utter Tosh.  The thing is
> that there seems to be a lot of time and energy going into trying to come
> up with ideas for said props that conform to our current view of reality.

The problem is that some of them can't be made to conform to our current view
of reality, but something equally useful can.  FTL travel apparently causes
trouble with the Theory of Relativity, but Traveller won't travel far without
it, so people generally accept that one.  Reactionless drives definitely
cause problems with Relativity and Conservation of Energy, and even I who
never took physics beyond high school can prove it on paper.  (Or on a VDU,
if you want.)  Reactionless drives are also completely unnecessary.  What
upset a lot of people is that there is no reason for using them, when a
good old reaction drive will do just as well.  It's sort of like trying to
use an alien which eats a modest amount, never excretes, and outruns
an antelope.

>			This is all well and fine but I have never had
> that much trouble with the technology in MT needing over much explaination,
> You have a jump drive that you put fuel in and push a button.... fine
> The M-drive takes fuel in one end and pushes you along..... Why gild the lily?

A lot of us started with the original Traveller, which tried to keep magic
boxes like that to a minimum.  It still had a few (jump drive, for a start)
because they were necessary for an interstellar SF game.  But MT is full
of them, and some (e.g. the reactionless drive) are not necessary.

>			The Physics in SF deal with acheiving either the
> impossible or doing stuff we can't manage Yet.

That's just it.  Traveller tried to keep the impossible bits to a minimum.
MT doesn't care what is possible.

>   I shall start throwing the odd alien into the TML for people to peruse
>  as well as a few more whinges on what I don't like about the MT universe.

Good.  That will make a change from all the vehicle designs.  :-)  Do you
fancy writing some alien design rules?  :-) :-)

- --
 "Keyboard?  How quaint!" - M. Scott

 Adrian Hurt			     |	JANET:  adrian@uk.ac.hw.cs
 UUCP: ..!uknet!cs.hw.ac.uk!adrian   |  ARPA:   adrian@cs.hw.ac.uk

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4536
From: metlay@phyast.pitt.edu (Mike Metlay)
Subject: Alien Romance
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 10:12:37 EDT

Well, I'm sort of incommunicado right now-- from here, i go home and
get back to the gang of musicians currently cutting tracks in my
studio (before anyone asks, this has not been an auspicious recording
session so far, as one person chose to be extremely difficult from
start to finish and was finally ejected yesterday). But if people are
curious about aliens and romance, I suppose I could fill in the hole
left by Scott now being off the TML for a while, after my music
sessions are over. (I need a break.) I've been thinking about retyping
and sending out "Borrowed Snapshots," the story of the origins of the
characters in Near Miss. Some of it is ready to go, and other parts
need to be rewritten.  Is there interest? If so, email me in private
and I'll keep a vote count. I suppose I should also get around to finishing
the story of Grant and Co. in their adventure on Terra.

I also need some feedback from James on how racy I can let things get. My
writing ranges from PG-13 to well into the illegal range (see the recent
exhuming of "The Bandit" on alt.sex.stories), but the TML IS a public
forum, and I wouldn't want to offend anyone.

- --
mike metlay    (phud, no less)
metlay@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4537
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 13:23 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: 4.5th Frontier War Length

How long is the 4.5th Frontier War?

So far there are 4 complete chapters, one in editing soon ready for
posting when I get set up in Texas.

Chapter 1:  Raid on Enoc  72 Kbytes
Chapter 2:  Is there a Doctor in the Sector  105 Kbytes
Chapter 3:  You know something is happening but you don't know what it is
	    Do you, Mr. Jones?  41 Kbytes
Chapter 4:  Down the Welles  131 Kbytes
Chapter 5:  The 4.5th Columists  105 Kbytes (and growing)

I plan on at least 2 more chapters to complete the story, though there may
be a third if I have the time and energy.

2G Scott

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4538
Date: 10 Aug 92 21:59:02 EDT
From: Cynthia Higginbotham <71035.1211@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Congrats and Why not discuss bio?

	First, Congrats, Mike, on getting published in the MTJ#3.  (It
finally showed up around here.  Never saw #2).  I'm not sure I got the
last joke, though.
	Second, Yes!  More on bio! Please!  Mark, you and Ed have been
hiding your bio discussions in private e-mail?  Shame on you! Some of
the rest of us out here have an interest in such things, and some
background to follow such a discussion, even.  (Plant Biology was
fascinating -- the difference between C-4 and C-3 cycles has set the
pattern of whole civilizations.  Working for the Soil Conservation
Service for a year was educational.  So was the Cotton Simulation
project (GOSSYM/COMAX) that my thesis was a small part of...).  BTW,
what are these gaffes in Traveller xenobiology that you are referring
to?
	Third, who all with Canadian e-mail addresses really is in Canada,
and if so, where?  It looks like we'll be vacationing in Canada
regularly, so...
	Fourth, how about some discussion on varieties of human and alien
cultures?  What kind of societies do you have out there, and why are
they that way?  For myself, I regard the 3rd Imperium as consisting of
an "Imperial" or "Spacer" culture made up of the Imperial nobility,
Imperial militaries, and those whose livelihoods takes them from world
to world rather than orienting around any one world -- merchants,
scouts, Travellers, what-have-you, and the cultures of individual
worlds.  The various MT sourcebooks have hinted that the cultures of
certain former interstellar states still dominate some areas of the
Imperium, but only the Vilani culture has been described in any detail.
Anybody have any ideas on the Ilelish, or Sylean cultures?

				-- Cynthia
				(yes, it's really me, not Steve.)

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4539
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 12:18 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Stories on the TML (romance)

Hey folx,

Metlay sez:
}I also need some feedback from James on how racy I can let
}things get. My writing ranges from PG-13 to well into the
}illegal range (see the recent exhuming of "The Bandit" on
}alt.sex.stories), but the TML IS a public forum, and I wouldn't
}want to offend anyone.

Mee too...  Same question.

In writing the next chapter of the 4.5th, I have some concerns,
some might view a bit as ranging from PG-13 to R at the fade out.
But from another point of view, would start at R and head into
the X range.   (Depends on your views of human-vargr relations)

Frankly, I have no intention of going into what *I* consider bad
taste.  But, I have only *MY definition to go by.  I have no
intention of getting into a "mine's-hotter-than-yours" contest
either.  We need good stories, not a Elf Sternberg clone, I don't
intend to try, but conversely, I don't like limiting myself either.

My intention is to send the scene (when completed) to James for a
preview.  This is probably the best course of action, after all
he is and should be the final judge of what goes out.

2G Scott
PS.  Departure for San Antonio:  Thursday morning.  This account
will remain active, and I may be able to telnet back to it in
September once I get set up.

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4540
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 12:20 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Neato Bio stuff

I sed:
>But, that is not to say that we can't or shouldn't talk about
>weird bio-chemistry and other stuff.  Indeed sometimes us poor
>non-bio types can get a lot of neato ideas from hearing about a
>particularly weird animal... I remember a discussion off line a
>while back on some kind of weird frog that carried it's young
>tadpoles around *Under* the skin of the female.  When they were
>'born' hundreds of these lil suckers ripped their way out through
>the skin of the female.  BLEAH!  ICK!  :-P

PEEPER toads!  That was the name...

Mark sez:
}That's just the tip of the iceberg where Rana (African Treefrog family)
}is concerned.  Read "Jurassic Park" (Crichton) or "Legacy of Herot"
}(Niven) for some real chillers about frog-like critters, or similar
}effects.  If you want weird animals, you don't even have to leave Earth
}to find creatures that can lift 30 times their own weight, spit live
}steam, excrete caustic chemicals, or survive being frozen in a block
}of ice for over three months.  That's plenty weird enough without
}inventing space monsters with heretofore unheard of biologies.

These are exactly the sort of things *I'd* like to hear about.  It
helps if one knows what kind of weird things are here on *earth* before
we all start figuring out what weird things might be going down in space.
Heck!  Did you know there is SULPHUR based life on *EARTH*?  Weird little
worm critters that metabolize the sulphur compounds at the continental
plates in the oceans.

2G Scott

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4541
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 11:23:14 PDT
From: cat@fgssu1.fgs.slb.com (Juanna B. A. Sleep)
Subject: Roleplaying, physics nerds, etc

ASPOLOGIA SCIENTIA:

I know it might sound a little strange coming from one of the physics-addicts,
but I'd love seeing more aliens.  My interest in aliens actually lies
in the challenges of roleplaying them (and the biology of an alien is not
seperable, in my uneducated opinion, from its psychology).  The biology is
interesting, but the psychology is what really gets me going.  On the other
hand, I'll always pick a book of xenopsychology SF (CJ Cherry, Sturgeon) over
a book of the harder physics variety of SF (this isn't to say that the science
in Cherry or is bad, because it's not - it's just that the characters are
_SO_ good).  An alien without a xenopsychology and without a culture is just
another lifeform, 'ya know?  ;-)  So please, if the lifesci-nerds want to
wax eloquent about bio matters, please do so!  I think we could profit by a
better balance.
- ---------------------------
OPEN MOUTH, REMOVE FOOT

Mark Cook's injunction to research PRIOR to stuffing one's foot (back) into
one's mouth is one well worth heeding (yea, verily, by me too).  Ever since
the discussion on grav belts and free fall and velocity limitations thereto
apertaining, I've been digging out my refs on exposure and other wind-related
injuries, with the aim of posting up a synopsis of what injuries/trauma are
induced at which velocities...but I'm not done yet (AND I'm in the middle of
moving, which makes things a little harder than usual because my EMT texts
are in a box _SOMEWHERE_).  What I'd like to find (and expect to be able to
find at the UCal library) is a ref which details the trauma induced by sudden
acceleration/deceleration (something which NASA did a lot of research on, I
believe).  Then I'll really be in business as to having my facts all lined up
and well-behaved.
- ---------------------------
TML STORY LINES/ROLEPLAYING EXAMPLES

I don't think I will ever mind the story lines that people have been posting
on the TML, because the quality has been good, and I also enjoy seeing how
other peoples' games and characters work.  (You can take that as a yes vote,
Herr Doktor Metlay.)  The point of view of the 4.5th frontier war is a real
good example - before 4.5th, I always thought of the Zhodani as The Evil
Empire(tm).  I won't say my opinion (as far as my imperial characters is
concerned) has changed, but my outlook has been broadened.  I'm also putting
together a robot character, because I liked the way the Imperial Advisor
presented the pseudo-biologicals as characters, and I'd like to try it myself.
- ---------------------------
PARTING SHOTS

My account is going away in 3 days, and my new account isn't active yet.  "See"
you all in a few weeks.  Try not to be too interesting in the interim - I don't
want to miss anything... ;-)

Catie Helm


------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4542
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 13:50:07 -11:00:00
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: RADAR as a weapon

I'm currently playing with a group that has a real world electronics wiz and
an ex armed forces trooper as players.  On a number of occasions the two of
them have collaborated on using "ground following" radar and like high
powered electronics equipment to "zap" troops on the ground so that they
get their minds scrambled and are unable to function effectively in the
ensuing combat.

The GM goes along with this and I've complained about it without knowing any
background on why it is supposed to work.

Has anyone any info on this supposed effect?

Is it useable as a weapon on a regular basis?

Why don't we use it as a weapon TODAY?  I've never heard of it before in real
world situations.

What sort of ranges and strengths and effects are we talking about?

What defences are there to it?

(appologies to the BIO people but this has really bugged me and I need some
feedback from the PHYSICS department).

Bruce...            pihlab @ hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------
Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4543
Date: 11 Aug 92 23:56:24 EDT
From: bryan borich <70541.1410@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Challenge #64

    Challenge #64 should be out shortly with a special insert of interest
to Traveller players.

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4544
Date: 12 Aug 92 00:19:15 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Biology

I once got irritated by a *stupid* mistake in "The Bestiary" (a section
of the *old* JTAS devoted to alien life forms). What set me off was a
reference to "copper-based hemoglobin".

I'm sure those of you with any acquaintance with biochemistry are
cringing now. :-) I did a bit of research and came up with a number of
possible "respiratory pigements" besides hemoglobin (and the
semi-well-known henocyanin).

I don't have the info anymore except what my trivia oriented mind
recalls. But I had *two* copper based. and a nickel based, and a
*different* iron-based one.

I liked the alternate iron-based pigment. I believe it was called
hemethryin (or something like that) it was pale pink when
non-oxygenated, and red when oxygenated. But what I liked best was the
minor little detail that could make a refs day.

It doesn't bind to the "respiratory poisons" that hemoglobin does.
Cyanide was *specificly* mentioned. I'm sure that the possibilities are
obvious to the devious refs out there... :-)

No doubt it is used by life forms on worlds with some sorts of "tainted"
atmosphere.

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4545
Date: 12 Aug 92 08:32:45 EDT
From: Leonard Erickson <70465.203@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: more bio stuff

Catie Helm writes:

>OPEN MOUTH, REMOVE FOOT
>
>Mark Cook's injunction to research PRIOR to stuffing one's foot (back)
>into one's mouth is one well worth heeding (yea, verily, by me too).
>Ever since the discussion on grav belts and free fall and velocity
>limitations thereto apertaining, I've been digging out my refs on
>exposure and other wind-related injuries, with the aim of posting up a
>synopsis of what injuries/trauma are induced at which velocities...but
>I'm not done yet (AND I'm in the middle of moving, which makes things
>a little harder than usual because my EMT texts are in a box
>_SOMEWHERE_).  What I'd like to find (and expect to be able to find at
>the UCal library) is a ref which details the trauma induced by sudden
>acceleration/deceleration (something which NASA did a lot of research
>on, I believe).  Then I'll really be in business as to having my facts
>all lined up and well-behaved.

What you probably want is the research done for the Air Force by a Col.
Stapp back in the mid-50s. He's the guy in the famous film sequnce of a
man on a rocket sled.

One bit of trivia I recall from someone's review of the book (in an old
magazine! I'm not *that* old!) was the experiments with extremes of
temperature. They had volunteers who endured an air temperature of 450
degrees F for something like an hour. The only damage were burns where
a couple of them had been wearing sweatbands (as I understand, they
were otherwise naked). I'm fairly sure this was at *zero* humidity!

Picture the fun you can have with trivia like this. Either presenting
the players with a *possibly* survivable situation that they are sure
will kill them, or alternatively, having them trying to deal with a
world labeled "habitable" because some computer somewhere got the data
on "endurable extremes" confused with the data on *livable*.

"But the computer *insists* that humans can survive at those
temperatures..."  :-)

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4546
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: A Little Voyeur
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 8:11:15 PDT

With regard to Mike and Scott asking about the amount of prurience
to place into their stories I'd like to say "go for it".  May reasons:

1.  I think we're all at least 16 or 17 years old (as a lower bound).
2.  This is a private list, not a public newsgroup.
3.  The aim here is meaningful (?) literature rather than titilation.
    (At least Mike says he posts his juicy stuff to the alt.* area.)

We could just use the burst program James made--the one that turns
the digest into independent messages, and ask writers to add a descriptive
thing to their subject.  That is, if the subject says "STORY" in it,
it, we know what it is.  We could make a "STORY-XXX" if it gets "bad" (good?)
enough and those uninterested could just deleted them without reading
them.
- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4547
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:35 CST
From: KELLOGG@DUCVAX.AUBURN.EDU
Subject: Last message out of Auburn/Spinward Marches...

Last message out of Auburn/Jewell (0804)  1108-812

Zhodani troops have laneded.  Station closing down.
Word has come Imperial troops are on their way.  Will
hold until friendly tro...

:-)

2G Scott

------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4548
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 11:13:20 +1000
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: life sciences

hi,

Lots and lots of people have been talking about adding discussions
of bio stuff to tml.  I'd like to add my voice to the cacophony.
Let the discussions appear publicly, they appear to be of interest
to lots and lots of readers.  Some of us might even be able to add
helpful comments (not speaking for myself here, my comments are never
helpful, useful or often meaningful)


Cynthia/Steve writes,
>					-- Cynthia
>					(yes, it's really me, not Steve.)

But Steve, you could just be saying that....	:-)


        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?


------------------------------

Bundle: 379
Archive-Message-Number: 4549
Subject: Hi folks
Reply-To: James.T.Perkins@tek.com (James T Perkins)
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 11:08:31 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.sp-eug.com>

Well, it's about time I stick my head up and fess up to problems that
exist in the moved TML:

	1) I have been very unresponsive as a list admin.  I hope this
	   will improve over the next few weeks.
	2) The biweekly folks seem to not be getting any traffic.  I
	   need to look into this.
	3) The bundle folks are traffic-less too, I think.
	4) It's time for me to winnow out dead addresses and add new
	   members again.
	5) Somehow a TML nightly got reflected at the list alias, so
	   that it got resent as part of the next night's digest.  This
	   is a tough one!  If it appears to be a rare occurance I won't
	   do anything to fix it.

More news as I find things.  New job is demanding, my wife got in a
wreck and we're car-searching now (she's fine), and so on.  Apologies
for being a poor admin this last month.

James

------------------------------
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Today's topics:

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 380  4550 13-Aug-1992 Richard Johnson  Microwave Times! << {Sorry- long BIO-py
 380  4551 14-Aug-1992 LTG3878@ZEUS.TA  Reaver's Deep Sector - misc. info. << I
 380  4552 15-Aug-1992 PIERRE-LOUIS CO  no subject (file transmission) << Greet
 380  4553 15-Aug-1992 PAVEWAY          Biology in SF and SF games <<   A good
 380  4554 17-Aug-1992 Michael A. Surm  Origins/Gen Con << Since it hasn't been
 380  4555 18-Aug-1992 s3007048@mackay  re: Psionics << On Saturday 15th August
 380  4556 18-Aug-1992 zonker@ihlpy.at  Re: Gen/Con Origins << My family and I
 380  4557 19-Aug-1992 pihlab@hhcs.gov  Asorted items and HIGHGUARD << Re: 4550
 380  4558 20-Aug-1992 Pauli            Asorted items and HIGHGUARD << Bruce wr
 380  4559 20-Aug-1992 Richard Johnson  Mind Control RADAR << Bruce...   (pihla
 380  4560 20-Aug-1992 LTG3878@RIGEL.T  Dispersion, Fleet Tactics, and more. <<
 380  4561 21-Aug-1992 s3007048@mackay  << All recepients of the letter from Mu

------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4550
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Microwave Times!
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 8:29:59 PDT

{Sorry- long BIO-pysics post.} :=)

Bruce says:
:[My group is using RADAR as a weapon; the GM lets them.]
:Has anyone any info on this supposed effect?
:Is it useable as a weapon on a regular basis?

Yes, to both questions, within limits.  RADAR is a microwave radio
signal.  By carefully designing your antenna, you can concentrate
the power of your transmitter into semi-coeherent short bursts, and
broadcast it generally in one direction.  RADAR normally works by
timing the difference between when you send a signal and receive it.

[technical aside: if you design your antenna as a resonant cavity, you
can create a truly coherent, single wavelength, beam - aka MASER.  This
will function like a laser weapon, only bigger, subject to the limits
described below.]

Essentially, you just get a big microwave transmitter, and an antenna
that can take the power, and cook your enemies.  Just like the one in
your kitchen, only bigger.  Shrewd users will have the models that
broadcast in the range most absorbed by water.  A normal surface-search
radar is not terribly efficient at cooking sophonts because the frequencies
used tend to be reflected by water--but they will work.

:Why don't we use it as a weapon TODAY?  I've never heard of it before in
:real world situations.
:What sort of ranges and strengths and effects are we talking about?
:What defences are there to it?

It's bulky.  It's heavy.  It's nonselective.  It's a sitting duck for one
HARM.  That is, one infantryman with a rifle and or shoulder launched
missile will toast thousands of dollars worth of gear.

It's easily defeated.  Just wear aluminized clothing.  (i.e. reflec will
work like a champ.  So will almost any vehicle with metal in it.)

It's easily spoofed. (Think I used the right word.)  Small changes in
subsurface composition, trees, streams, etc. will scatter and or deflect
the beam in strange ways.  It's quite possible (it was at TL7) to wear
armor that makes a person *invisible* to the assigned wavelength.

To do a good job with this puppy, you probably want, say, a ten kW
transmitter capable of a 50% duty cycle in the neighborhood of 300MHz.
Just about any phased yagee antenna whould work, but make sure you have
a good impedance match.  Effective range should be out to a few to a
few tens of km.  Of course you'll eliminate life as we know it in the
area.  Kinda like napalm.

Finally, except at short ranges, it is truly inhumane.  It cooks its
targets.  It is not quick.  It is painful.  It does NOT lessen mental
acuity or physical co-ordination.  That is, you've hurt your enemy and
he can still fight you.

If *I* were the GM, I'd have field day with this.  If your enemy were
advanced, there'd be an anti-radiation missile knocking on your door
in short order.  (And you *WILL* be detected--these are electronically
NOISY.)  If your enemy were primitive, they'd hide behind rocks, trees,
and in water (just like normal), making them capable of long (several
minutes) of exposure, during which they would assault your position.

- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Those whom the gods would destroy, they first make maddening.

------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4551
Date:    Fri, 14 Aug 1992 9:37:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: LTG3878@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Reaver's Deep Sector - misc. info.

I have recently ftp'ed the info. on Reaver's Deep Sector on Sunbane.
I have the following sources of information on Reaver's Deep:
Atlas of the Imperium - Old Trav.
High Passage #4, #5 - Old Trav.
Far Traveller #1, #2 - Old Trav.
Pilot's Guide to Drexilthar Subsector - Old Trav.
Traveller's Digest #16 - Mega Trav.

I noticed in the ftp file several planet names not given in any of the above
sources.  Have I missed a source on Reaver's Deep?  Is it possible that
Far Traveller #3, or perhaps the Pilot's Guide to Caledon Subsector, were ever
published.  I would appreciate a response from anyone who knows.  Also, is
there perhaps a compendium of published material for Traveller and/or
MegaTraveller.  If so, please e-mail me with a way to obtain such a list.

Thanks in advance.

					Lewis Taylor Goss

P.S. I am a collector of Mega/Traveller material, and can pay a good price for
items in good condition.  Please e-mail me if you are interested.



------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4552
From: PIERRE-LOUIS CONSTANTIN <consp00@dmi.usherb.ca>
Subject: no subject (file transmission)
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 17:58:51 EDT

Greetings!

    I've been tring to post to the TML for a while and now that finals are
    over, I finally have time for Traveller. :)

bio Stuff:
- ----------
    First, a comment about the recent Bio thread...  I'm very interested in
    seeing a new "creature creation" system for Traveller, one that is
    more realistic that what's in the book even if it requires more thought
    to build a creature.  What I would like to see is a system that lets
    a referee build a complete ecology using a planet's UPP.
    You use the UPP to find out the planet's athmo/hydrosphere ratings,
    the mineral levels, etc etc, then the basic "weather types" (high-
    altitude storms, great tides, warm air currents, etc).
    From then on you can determine the ecosystem's "base", that is, a couple
    of the more important bacteria/viruses/microbes and build up the
    ecosystem from then on trying to fill every niches in the food chain.

    The niches would be determined by the current types of creatures,
    the place of each creature in the food chain decided according to it's
    size, metabolism and capacities, for example:
plankton <-- water mammal <- land fisher <- giant trap plants <- decay back
	       \	       \- sea birds <- parasitic worms <-/ into sea.
		\- crustacean <- squid <- ??? (empty niche to be filled)
					\- ??? (empty niche)

    Also, the niches and types of creatures would be limited by the
    environment, for example the planet's land surface might be unhabitable
    for flying creatures (what if the planet is in a constant meteor shower?)
    or ape-likes creatures would be unlikely in a tree-less environment.

    This sounds like a lot of work but I think it would be worth it. :)
    After all, a lot of SF books are only about an ecosystem and we would
    be sure to get an integrated ecosystem.

    The hard part would be to be able to create non-earth-like ecologies
    but if we use a "building blocks" system like this, it could make
    some sense in the end. :)

    Just my, 39 lines' worth of comments. :)  I'm not a biologist and
    I only know what I've been taught in high school but this is the
    kind of system I would like to see (or help create :).

Metempsychosys:
- ---------------

    I thought of making this a psi power, it's pretty powerful so take it or
    leave it. :)

    "When a living thing dies, its 'soul' or psyche takes up a new residence
    in some other body, which it thereby vivifies; for the psyche, bodily
    death means emigration, bodily birth immigration.  That is the ancient
    doctrine of 'metempsychosis' or the transmigration of the soul."
    "...To some Greeks, at least, it appeared to be an empirical theory;
    and its empirical basis lay in memory"
					-- The Oxford Companion to The Mind

    How should metempsychosys work in MegaTraveller?  Well, the character
isn't really re-born (it would involve too many religions and it's a touchy
subject:).  What happens is that a character tries to transfer all his
tought-patterns to something that might accept them.

This something is usually an already sentient being, but it can be an animal
or even a sufficiently advanced computer system.  The creature being
transferred to is still using his or her own brain and that the being
transferring there cannot wipe out all the thought-patterns already present
and start from scratch because it would immediately kill the host.
The target's regulatory systems (breathing, etc) would receive a shock and
the target would die or fall into a coma.

If the attempt works, the result is a mesh of the two different
personalities living in the target's body.  Mental skills and psionic skills
can be transferred to the new body.  The resulting being might feel as if
having two distinct personalities but usually the differing traits smooth
out over time.	Only the major traits of both personalities finally emerges,
but in general, the beings harsh and cunning enough to perform a
metempsychosys usually have a strong personality and in general
end up with almost their original selves and thought-processes in the end.

Metempsychosys should be a very uncommon psionic skill, because it is almost
impossible to train in it. Those who have it are naturally strong in it.
To obtain this skill while at a Psionic Institute, you have to roll an
11+ using the normal procedure (this means you have to try for this skill
first).

When a character wishes to use this skill, he has to concentrate
for one full round without doing anything else.  Then he must spend one psi
point for each point of intellect, education or skill level (only mental
& psi skills, like admin) that he wants to transfer to the new body.

A simple psi-shield is all that's needed to prevent invasion. The victim
gets the same type of protection as from a normal psi assault.
Unshielded victims or those without psi-points are immediately affected,
while a person aware of being invaded can spend psi-points to suppress the
points spent by the one transferring, on a one-on-one basis. There are no
other know defenses.  This would be a very interesting skill to use in an
attack if it didn't leave the user without psi points and possible brain
damage.

Example: Max Crab is bleeding to death, collapsed on a balcony overlooking
a vast Vilani city.  Victim of a witch hunt, he understands the hopelessness
of his situation when he hears the mob coming closer.  A member of the
lynch mob, Talgan, hopes to calm down the usually peaceful vilani by
doing things in the normal, commonly accepted way and steps boldly before
the prone body, trying to reason with them.
Crab knows there's only one thing he can do and he concentrates on the
preaching vland.  He uses his last psi strength to send his whole
consciouseness into the vland's and try to dislodge it.  Crab has 11
points left, with which he hopes to transfer 4 points of Int,2 of Edu (he
wants to "remember" some secret plans he's heard of... A character's
personal memories will be proportional to the number of edu points
transferred), 2 levels of Pilot and 3 of Computer. The vland has 6
psi-strength points.  He pushes back the attack, reducing Crab's total
points to only 5. Crab doesn't have a choice, and must transfer what he can
for 5 points worth.  He chooses 2 point of education, 2 of Int and 1 of
Computer, hoping that he won't end up in a totally impotent bureaucrat.

The results? We know that the vland was a low bureaucrat, relatively
unintelligent and uneducated with int of 5. Crab transferred two points.
The vland's TOTAL intelligence is now 7, but a lot of his thinking will be
like Crab's fashion because roughly 29% (2/7) of his thought-processes comes
from Crab.  With 7 of Edu to start with, he ends up at 9, so 22% of what he
knows comes from Crab.	Thus, he may not BE Crab but he certainly does
behave like him about a third of the time.

	Since no character's abilities can go beyond F, the points
over F must be deducted from the victim's side.  For example, a victim has
C Int.	He or she gets transferred 7 Int points.  The total exceeds F by 3
points, so we cut off 3 from C's starting intelligence to end up with F Int.
The total int count goes like this: 9 from victim and 7 from transferer.
The intellect is thus 57% that of victim and 43% that of transfered.  These
percentages are good guidelines to build up the resulting personality.

	We've mentionned that even some computers would be able to hold
personalities.	Actually, anything that can hold a living, moving pattern
of forces (in brains, electricity) can be a recipient for a being.  Lo-tech
computers cannot do this. Parrallel computers can, but of course, the
capacities of the new being will be severely limited.  With 8 as an average
psi-strenght (it's actually lower than that), that makes for about 4 Int, 2
Edu and 2 Psi (to be able to affect the outside world).  Not much of a
person, and besides, imagine the shock of finding yourself being a pile
of optic cables and memories? An almost bodyless machine?  It might
explain some of those haunted Zhodani ships stories... :)

    This psionic skill might seem out of place in MegaTraveller but this
skill can add a lot of interesting role-playing twists and turns to a game.
Some cults might be built around this psionic power, or someone might
pretend to be the reincarnated Strephon (and promptly get lynched :).


Hope you like it, I hope nobody had done it before and that I get some
comments. :)

   // Pierre-Louis Constantin, consp00@dmi.usherb.ca
\\//  "Variables won't, constants aren't."  -- Osborn


------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4553
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 12:33 GMT
From: PAVEWAY <BSP054@BANGOR.AC.UK>
Subject: Biology in SF and SF games

  A good set of books to read to get an idea of 'good' xenobiology and
'convincing' aliens are the Uplift series by David Brin.  It is from these
books that I think the inspiration for the Solomani GenAssist programs were
taken.  The Uplift universe was rather well adapted to the GURPS system some
while back (with David Brin himself doing the alien generation rules).
  Traveller has a paucity of really interesting aliens, ok the Hivers and the
K'Kree are notable (but rarely featured) exceptions.  There are meant to be
numerous minor races but they are just that, Minor.  The Traveller universe is
rather humanocentric,  I reckon this is due to the SF sources on which it was
originally inspired (Space Opera in the Niven/Asimov mold) what I would love to
see is the human races being taken down a peg or two....... a nice TL15 alien
civilisation or three to keep our arrogance in check.  Hey space is big right..?
How about some Thenanin? Heh heh heh

	Paveway A-Human Ab-Droyne Absu-Ancient ul-dolphin ul-chimp ul-orang
ul-orca ul-canis ul-elephant

------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4554
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 92 08:42:33 -0500
From: surman@vortex.lgs.lsu.edu (Michael A. Surman)
Subject: Origins/Gen Con

Since it hasn't been mentioned recently and it IS only a couple of
days away. Who will be at Orgins/Gen Con? And where are you staying?
My wife and I will be staying at the Marc Plaza.

And where would be a good place for all of us to get together?


Mike

------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4555
From: s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au
Subject: re: Psionics
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 16:44:54 GMT

On Saturday 15th August 1992, Pierre-Louis Constantin wrote:

> Metempsychosys:
> ---------------
>
> 	I thought of making this a psi power, it's pretty powerful so take
> it or leave it. :)
>
> "When a living thing dies, its 'soul' or psyche takes up a new residence
> in some other body, which it thereby vivifies;  for the psyche, bodily
> death means emigration, bodily birth immigration.  That is the ancient
> doctrine of 'metempsychosis' or the transmigration of the soul."
> "...To some Greeks, at least, it appeared to be an empirical theory;
> and its empirical basis lay in memory"
> 					-- The Oxford Companion to the Mind
>
> 	How should metempsychosis work in Megatraveller?...

	A friend of mine has written a new psi system for traveller, and
it will be available within the next six months or so...  and in it,
Metempsychosis as you call it, would be covered by Projection.  Projection
is the out-of-body excursions the mind can perform as psychic phenomenon.
It is possible for the projectionist to at the point of death, should (s)he
be powerful enough, to break the "silver-cord" that attaches the mind to
the body, and go in search of a new host body.  This body need not be
vacant, as (s)he could quite easily overcome or kill a sap (aka. non-psi).
And this host need not be human either.  For instance a character that I
run disconnected her mind from her old Imperial body, and inhabited an
alien (a race that my GM came up with).  Please note though, that if a
humanoid inhabits a creature with a smaller brain volume, then the mind
will adjust to fit.  So if you want to inhabit a mouse, then expect to
possibly become a sap, and definately lose 80% of your intelligence and
education.  This stops humanoid characters from inhabiting birds and
things, as this would become a little bit powerful.

	Also, should the character wish to inhabit a machine (ie. a robot
mind), then they should have abilities needed above, and also teleptech
(the equivalent of telepathy with computer minds).  Then the mind could
incorperate itself with a computer mind, and even take over it.  I'm not
very familiar with the rules on teleptech, but I hear that they are very
interesting...

	Transition is usually ok for a seasoned projectionist, as they are
used to extreme changes in bodily condition (ever thought what a body does
when it's mind it a couple of parsecs away?  not much, it's usually in a
coma like state).  But the body the projectionist leaves suffers huge brain
damage after the character leaves.

	Also, for all those who are not level 12 projectionists, psi drugs
can temporarily make metempsychosis possible, but the body you leave takes
huge amounts of damage when the drugs ware off, as does your mind in the
new body, when you arrive.  For full rules on this, wait until the rules
come out, either from GDW or as Public Domain material should they be
stupid and not publish it.

	It is possible for the character to inhabit an alive and well host,
and hide in the depths of the brain.  This is called possession, but is
usually performed by ghosts. (minds that did not find their way to where
ever minds go when beings die)  This could end up in a person that is
played by two characters.  (eg. a player-character and a
non-player-character)  Usually a wandering mind will have a hard time
inhabiting the body of an active-psi, as defence will be possible for the
host mind.

	As metempsychosis is a level 12 projection ability, it will be very
rare.  And some GM's will want to limit it so that after each
metempsychosis, the projection drops one level perminantly.

Regards,

	Mike.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet:	s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au

                     "I have a cunning plan..."	- Baldrick (Black Adder)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Michael Glew - School of Math Phys Comp & Elec - Macquarie University
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4556
From: zonker@ihlpy.att.com
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 92 08:22 CDT
Subject: Re: Gen/Con Origins

My family and I will also be staying at the Marc Plaza.  I will be working
with GDW throughout the con and will either be in the miniatures area
(since I am also vice president of HMGS midwest who are sponsoring the
miniatures stuff) or at the GDW booth.  Miniatures wise make sure you get a
look at the 25mm Tuilleries (sp?) which will win Todd Fischer at least
one status point for conspicuous consumption (oops, sorry I'm slipping into
En Guard terminology).  Things may be a bit hectic for me since the
Command Decision tournament was cancelled and I am trying to fill the
slots with games and Frank wants me to run a Twilight 2000 demo game, but
I look forward to meeting anyone who shows up.
						SNAFU,
						Tom Harris

------------------------------
Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4557
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 92 15:29:44 -11:00:00
From: pihlab@hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Asorted items and HIGHGUARD

Re: 4550   RADAR as a weapon.
- --------

Thanks for the info Richard but...

So far the characters have not been using the RADAR (etc) to "toast" victims
but more along the lines of temporary "short-circuiting" the targets' minds
causing unconsciousness and vomitting and basically ruining their day.

They quoted some stories about MIGs in Korea doing low level bombing runs and
causing these effects on equipment and staff at US targets.

Nobody has suggested actually building one of your "toasters", they are using
existing equipment on existing vehicles (eg Helicopter and Jet Aircraft).

What sort of effect and at what range can we expect from this standard sort of
equipment?  Obviously they're not putting out 10kW.

I've passed your EM on to my GM and he said that it would be very useful.

Re: 4553
- --------

Just purchased David Brin's  STARTIDE RISING and UPLIFT WAR.  Only a couple of
chapters in so far but its good.

Any other books in the series?


Some thoughts
- -------------

1. Your Fleet thunders up towards the enemy Fleet and looses off a salvo of
missiles, lasers, energy beams, particle beams and mesons (in self defence
of course).

And you miss the sucker!  The missiles fly on until their fuel is exhausted
and then drift (OR self destruct).  Your mesons have fallen short or long and
are no more.  But hey, your lasers and energy beams and Particle beams travel
on and on and on.  Does this mean that some poor bugger minding its own
business accidentally gets toasted several years later in a neighbouring
system?

2. In a real fleet engagement are we going to see "line up and shoot" sort of
combat from HIGHGUARD/TCS or is the whole thing going to degrade into
"one (or many) on one" dogfight combat or is it going to be massive formations
ala DOC SMITH or is it just an uncoordinated "free for all" as in STAR WARS?

3. Once the melee starts and the nukes are a firing away, what sort of command
control is going to be left.  The LENSMAN series has their "tanks" showing
all the multi-coloured dots representing ships in battle etc.  What sort of
command control would you expect in a "REAL" hundred (thousand) ship a side
slugfest?

I like the old HIGHGUARD/TCS methods but would like to hear what your thoughts
and experiences have been.  I personally competed in some strategic level
Traveller/HighGuard/TCS campaigns and the "rocks" almost always came out on
top in a defencive roll but whenever the lines of supply were a bit teuous
they ran into all sorts of problems.  These campaigns were for the military
minded and not in the Traveller Universe (I hope).

4. How do you take a planet from a determined enemy on the ground?  From
experience and observation of various strategic campaigns I've seen massive
armies obliterated, atmospheres stripped, viral plagues applied, radiated
rock balls, cometary collisions and simple surrender.

Anybody out there played in some Strategic level HighGuard/TCS campaigns?

Bruce...   pihlab@hhcs.gov.au

------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4558
Subject: Asorted items and HIGHGUARD
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 13:24:02 +1000
From: Pauli <grue@cs.uq.oz.au>

Bruce writes:

>And you miss the sucker!  The missiles fly on until their fuel is exhausted
>and then drift (OR self destruct).  Your mesons have fallen short or long and
>are no more.  But hey, your lasers and energy beams and Particle beams travel
>on and on and on.  Does this mean that some poor bugger minding its own
>business accidentally gets toasted several years later in a neighbouring
>system?

Won't there be some dispersion of the nasty beam weapons over distance?
Space isn't really empty, it contains a little bit of junk that will
effect your mis-aimed weapons.  Also, your chance of hitting a nearby
system is pretty remote (space after all is pretty big).  One possible way
to avoid this problem is to apply an imperial order that all ship to ship
combat shall take place perpendicular to the plane of the 2-D universe :-)


>2. In a real fleet engagement are we going to see "line up and shoot" sort of
>combat from HIGHGUARD/TCS or is the whole thing going to degrade into
>"one (or many) on one" dogfight combat or is it going to be massive formations
>ala DOC SMITH or is it just an uncoordinated "free for all" as in STAR WARS?

The line up and shoot is a good way to commit suicide.  If you opponent
is busy lining up, you might as well start shooting now.  The high guard
idea was that you commit some of your ships to the front and hold the
rest back as a reserve (which is a pretty good idea).  It then abstracted
away the bulk of the combat stuff.

As for the dog fight idea, I might expect the smaller ships to go into
that mode while the larger ones attempted to stay out of range of the
enemy's big ships.

The DOC SMITH formations would be good for displays and so on but would
be much use in combat.  They may be of use when you fleet is travelling
around.  Some kind of formation would have to be used to save stress on
the commander(s) of the fleet.

The uncoordinated "free for all" would be an inefficient usage of your
ships, any kind of cooperation would improve you effectiveness thus
I wouldn't expect this mode to occur in any clash except possibly for
small ship dogfights or reguard actions.


I'd put my vote on fleet combats being very short and very bloody.

Given the lethality of MT ship combat (which is probably under-estimated
anyway), I cannot see ships enguaging head to head.  That would be a sure
fire mutual kill.  Which isn't often good for either side.  I'd expect
real combat to be more of the form, detect them on passive sensors and
blow them away as fast as possible hoping that they don't see you in
the process.  The only time you'd turn active sensors on would be when
you detected the enemy using them or when you needed them for point
defense purposes.

As for how the fleet formation would look, I'd put my vote on having
the large capital ships as the centre or maybe aft of the centre (with
respect to direction of travel of the fleet).  Then the smaller ships
further out (getting smaller as they get further away from the centre).
Finally, some sensor ships a long long long way out who's job it is to
detect the enemy before they detect you.  I'd also expect the entire
formation to be very spread out becuase (1) small navigation errors
will occur and they shouldn't cost ships; (2) it ought to mean that
your smaller (and thus more expendable) craft are around the perimeter
(actualy surface since things are in 3D) of the fleet; (3) it reduces
the chance that two ships will be hit by the same nuke and misses are
less likely to hit something alse.  Point (1) isn't all that important in
combat, but even in comabt you'll need some space to maneuver.  Point (2)
means that your small ships should have (passive) sensor suites equal
to anything else in the fleet.  It also means that when your fleet is
detected, your small ships are the ones that take the first hits which
preserves your capital ships.  Additionally, the small ships are able
to provide point defence against incoming missiles for the larger ones.
I'm not sure how important point (3) would be in space since your fleet
is going to have to be very dispersed anyway.

Given this formation was being used, what would the chances be of building
a huge meson screen and a huge nuke damper to protect the entire fleet?
We've seen references to screens for cities (which would be small compared
to a fleet), but with decent defences for your entire fleet you wouldn't
have to build the defences into each ship (or at least you wouldn't have
to build in as good defences).


>4. How do you take a planet from a determined enemy on the ground?  From
>experience and observation of various strategic campaigns I've seen massive
>armies obliterated, atmospheres stripped, viral plagues applied, radiated
>rock balls, cometary collisions and simple surrender.

Get a large rock, accelerate it some nice pleasant velocity and chuck
it into the planet.  Wrecks the planet very well but gets rid of the
defenders.  Oh, so you wanted the planet afterwards.  Well, that makes
life much harder.

Meson gun attacks against population centres until they surrender
might work as might destroying the industrial potential of the planet.
But as has been pointed out on this list before, it doesn't take that
much effort to make a high population planet a fortress in space -- put
a laser turret into every new building plus some basic passive sensors
on many building and in many places around the globe and have some of
the fabled deep meson gun sites.  Attackers can forget about trying to
overcome your defenses quickly.  They cannot send in the big capital
ships becuase a single sensor platform anywhere on the hemishpere facing
them is going to mean that that ship is dead.

        						Pauli

Paul Dale                       | grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Department of Computer Science  | +61 7 365 2445
University of Queensland        |
Australia, 4072                 | Did you know that there are 41 two letter
                                |     words containing the letter 'a'?

------------------------------
Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4559
From: richard@agora.rain.com (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Mind Control RADAR
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 92 5:59:39 PDT


Bruce...   (pihlab@hhcs.gov.au) says:

:So far the characters have not been using the RADAR (etc) to "toast" victims
:but more along the lines of temporary "short-circuiting" the targets' minds
:causing unconsciousness and vomitting and basically ruining their day.
:...
:Nobody has suggested actually building one of your "toasters", they are using
:existing equipment on existing vehicles (eg Helicopter and Jet Aircraft).
:
:What sort of effect and at what range can we expect from this standard sort of
:equipment?  Obviously they're not putting out 10kW.

I'm not sure that a microwave would have this kind of effect on the brain/mind.
What happens (physically) is that the energy from the microwaves is absorbed
by some tissue (usually water or plasma) in the body.  The extra energy becomes
heat.  The organs most susceptible to this effect are in the endocrine system.
(Notably, no more babies. Eric--wanna help me out here?)

Confusion, uncosciousness, vomiting all sound to me like symptoms of radiation
sickness (the radioactivity kind, rather than this kind).  If indeed there were
some way to know for sure that this _actually_ rather than ficitionally happens,
then we've got a good case against TV and radio stations.

As for range, it's line-of-sight.  Power generally falls off as 1/r^2 where
r is the distance to the target. It is possible to be in the shadow of some
other target.  Metallic objects bounce the waves around.  Maybe you should
ask your GM to come up with a weapon table for you.  :=)

My personal feeling is "hey-it's a game!  If they're all having fun, just
make it somewhat self-consistent.  (Don't let 'em change the behavior later
to suit their whims.)  I have *NO* idea what a TL14 microwave saet will do
to a person's brain."
- --
Richard Johnson      richard@agora.rain.com
Qui custodii ipsos custodes?

------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4560
Date:    Thu, 20 Aug 1992 18:10:54 -0500 (CDT)
From: LTG3878@RIGEL.TAMU.EDU
Subject: Dispersion, Fleet Tactics, and more.

In answer to your questions:

1.  What happens to some poor schmo light-years away when you miss with a
laser, or other beam weapon?

Because of dispersion, nothing.  The headlights of car don't effectively light
my path beyond a certain distance, because of dispersion.  Lasers and particle
beams are more coherent light sources, but still, the beam will broaden and
lose its power with distance.  After travelling a few light-years, the effect
of the beam will be negligible.

2.  What about fleet tactics in MegaTraveller?

  a.  What about Trillion Credit Squadron/High Guard?

  Of course, this is Old Trav, isn't it?  Here, certainly, battles look like
  an Irish Knockdown.  There are three ranges, Short, Long, and Too Damn Long.
  Fighters are ineffectual, and the guy with biggest rocks wins.  Tactics are
  very abstract, and the battle is really between ship designs.

  b.  What about MegaTrav?

  Now we're talking.  Although I have never gotten around to doing it, it
  shoudn't take too much imagination to see one of these battles.  Now, we can
  actually have formations of ships, encirclement maneuvers, etc.  Important to
  keep in mind that we don't have firing arcs and such, as in Starfleet
  Battles, but that makes MT more realistic, not less.  Now, a person with
  inferior ship designs can win due to superior tactics.  Here is an example
  of my tactical ideas.

  First, each side will probably have a reserve force, consisting of those
  vessels each player does not wish to expose to battle.  Tankers, transports,
  and carriers will usually be in the reserve.  In addition, additional forces
  that the player does not wish to expose to battle at this time may be in
  the reserve.  Heavily damaged vessels are often transferred to the reserve, to
  prevent their destruction.

  Second, some screen forces may be deployed to protect the reserve from any
  breakthrough enemy forces.  The screen forces will probably consist primarily
  of destroyers and smaller fry, plus one or two larger ships.  The screen
  forces may be deployed slightly ahead of the reserve forces, to intercept
  breakthrough enemy vessels before they can come within weapons range of the
  reserve forces.

  Third, each side may have a ready reserve, forces which are out of the
  weapons range of vessels in the enemy's line of battle, but which can be
  readily transferred from the ready reserve to the player's own line of battle.
  Opinions differ as to which vessels should stay in the ready reserve.  I would
  place my capital ships in the ready reserve initially, to prevent them from
  receiving excess damage early in the battle.  It is possible to have the same
  force perform both the screen and ready reserve roles, if necessary.

  Fourth, each side has a line of battle.  These are the ships within weapons
  range of each other.  The most important issue a player must answer is, which
  vessels to place in one's line of battle at which time.  Placing all one's
  capital ships in the LOB initially may cause them take excessive damage early
  in the battle.  Populating one's LOB with only fighters means that your forces
  cannot effectively damage the enemy (as fighters can usually only cause minor
  damage to capital ships), and permit enemy forces to breakthrough your LOB,
  exposing your ready reserve to weapons fire (in effect, suddenly transferring
  all the forces in your ready reserve to your LOB).

  Fifth, each side may have breakthrough forces.  These forces are designed to
  penetrate your enemy's line of battle, breaking through to his rear areas.
  The breakthrough forces may then engage the ready reserve, the screen forces,
  or the reserve forces.  This latter usually causes the greatest damage, and
  some ships are designed explicitly to fulfill this role in a battle.  It is
  also possible to avoid the enemy's main forces, and attack the enemy's flanks
  or rear.  Forces dispatched to play this role are still called breakthrough
  forces, and are the primary reason to have a screen force separate from one's
  ready reserve forces.

  On a very abstract level, one's forces would be deployed like so:

                 may be one force
                        !
               .-------- ---------.
   Reserve      Screen      Ready      Line of   Enemy Line   Breakthrough
    Forces      Forces     Reserve     Battle    of Battle       Forces  -->
  (optional)  (optional)  (optional)                           (optional)

  The placement of titles is not intended to convey a sense of scale, and
  represents the order in which the forces appear only.

  In practice, their may be one or more of each of the above forces on a side
  at a time.

  On the issue of what vessels to place in the line of battle initially, I would
  deploy a limited number of capital ships plus a substantial number of escort
  and fighter craft, holding my main force of capital ships and cruisers in the
  ready reserve.  If the enemy responds with his capital ships, the escorts and
  fighters will cause such damage as they can, while my capital ships remain
  undamaged.  Therefore, when I at a later time do comit my capital ships to my
  line of battle, they will have the advantage over the enemy's vessels.  On the
  other hand, if the enemy refuses to place his main force in the line of
  battle, I will commit a limited number of heavy ships plus a much larger
  number of smaller fry to attempt to break through the enemy's line of battle
  and attack his ready reserve, thus accomplishing the same goal.

  The actual manner of deployment of the individual forces is up to the player.
  It is in this area that the question of formations arises, a matter I have
  too little practical experience to speak on.

					Lewis Taylor Goss

------------------------------

Bundle: 380
Archive-Message-Number: 4561
From: s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 92 9:35:25 GMT

All recepients of the letter from Murray Atkinson...

	It seems that I blundered and mixed up the AH/BH phone numbers.
They are the other way around...  Sorry for the inconveniences caused.

Regards,

	Mike.
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Internet:	s3007048@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au

                     "I have a cunning plan..."	- Baldrick (Black Adder)
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Michael Glew - School of Math Phys Comp & Elec - Macquarie University
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------
